My surname is Lopes and not Lope. If you find it difficult then just remember Jennifer Lopez. :)

Ghai Sir

Noted your concern and points. I agree with you that fundametalism of any religion is bad. We have to stand against them. kerala is a case in point to worry. But rise of hindutvavadi is also a concern. Actually we should stand against all the regressive and fundamentalist forces instead of pointing out who is right and who is wrong.

     >> Now if I criticse these retrogative thugs then liberals like you call me Hindutavi.Minorities sadly sold their Votes dirt cheap .And inturn you have been voting worthless Sarkars for the past 67 yrs.

I will not call you hindutvavadi. You have every right to call a spade a spade.

Unfortunately we do not have any credible alternative. BJP is a waste opportunity so long as it is connected with parivar.

Ghai Sir

I think it should be ibteda and not itbeda

 Sorry the last posted in wrong link.It is for Togadia's link

My appology to OutLook and dear Posters here.

 Itbidaye Ishak hein,Rota hein Kaya

Pls read as above.

 Lope Sahib

You said I am not pro Secularism .Fine .But yes  I consider my self an honest Secular and also selct Muslims for jobs plus fund some of the minorities's education .I never wanted to say but you forced me.

So you call your self a Secualr what have your Secular brothers done for Muslims for the uplift of Muslims ? Where are Sachar Reports and other such recomendations or first take right on resources or job reservations ??  Christians are better off due liberal education and fundings by the Church But Muslim Clergy what ever the Petro Dollars they recieve spend on Madaris but not building Secular Educational institutes imparting Modern sicience.

Now if I criticse these retrogative thugs then liberals like you call me Hindutavi.Minorities sadly sold their Votes dirt cheap .And inturn you have been voting worthless Sarkars for the past 67 yrs.

Dear Lope sahib await the withdrawl of USA from Afganistan then we will talk again on this subject . Christians too will be the victims of Jihadies in Islamic Countries as in Egypt ,Algeria and other Islamic Majority countries.

You are aware I hope what is happening to Christians in Kashmir and Pandits .Are Hindus or Togidias or Modies responsible ?? What happened to Professor in Kerela whose hand was cut ? Now those very hardliners and Congress with help of Christain Party all the three are ruling Kerela  .

Did the Teacher whos ehand has been cut got his job back ? No. Why ?/ Becaus ethe fear of backlash from the hand cutters.

If you really call your a Secular then be an honest one otherwise dime a dozen  Nakli Sicuklars here and crores in India ar eroaming and doing incalcuable damage to Country  .

Lope Sahib :

Itbidaye Isak hein,Tota hein Kaya 

Agey Agey dekhiye hota hein kaya !

If Hindutavi Togida is hate filled then  there are thousands of Secu brand Togdias  too .

 

sorry for typo error.

Respected Ghai Sir
 

What stand do you want us/me to take?
 

I would like to inform you that guru is non-entity for me, hence no stand. Even, modi is non-entity for me.
 

My country is dear to me. Those who are doing exemplary and positive works matters to me (not terrorist, rapist, religious bigots or those who presided over rapes and deaths).
Now your turn.
 

Can you tell me what is your stand over parivar, your stand over togadia, your stand over number of parivar foot soldier who are walking and talking hate-filled creature. Do you really think they will make our country (or for that matter your religion, way of life) enlightened one or developed one and put us in the comity of other developed country.? What is your stand on those hapless, innocent and poor people who got killed in communal riots for no fault on their party? What is your stand on three terrorist and 900 crores ransom being gifted to pak by your own nationalist party? Your stand over ram mandir issue being politicized and used by bjp time and again, the moolah it has generated not accounted for by VHP it is alleged. Your stand over Christian and muslim religion being looked down upon as alien ones by parivar.
The purpose of the abovementioned questions is to just prick and try to awake your conscience because I know you are brainwashed.
 

Actually you people are not interested what stand seculars are taking, you are only interested in thrashing them. It is well set out policy of parivar to defame secularism. If you cannot defeat it defame it.
 

>> " BI SAROJA and other Secu anti Modi brigade are afraid to take a clear cut position on Afzal Guru's hanging ." - AK Ghai

The mullah apologists and left liberatti have a long and tortous history of rubbishing court judgements and enquiries. Some of the most (in)famous examples are Shah Bano, Babri land title, Afzal Guru, Batla, Gujarat SIT, Binayak Sen, Hemant Karkare et al.

If these jokers could have their way, Sharia retards and Commie kangaroos would adorn our justice system, treating conspiracy theories as sacrosanct despite facts.staring them in face. These lousy bunch of sickular bigots scream shrill for Kasab, Guru and Batla boys, but are ever-ready to convict Modi, BJP and RSS at mere mention of allegations.

One could have forgiven them if they did it in pursuit of their idieologies. The fact that these morons are tainted by such things as Fai junkets, Saudi petro-dollars and ISI funding, makes them almost comparable to anti-national terrorists.

 @Maha "But post 9/11, Pakistan will not find support for this"

@Ramki ""A lot has changed in last 10 years. The very idea of pakistan has been questioned, China's strengtheing presence is forcing USA to slowly side India (against Pakistan). For the powerful nations of western world, independent Kashmir is not an option since they do not want yet another possible ally against west/in favour of China"

Its more than ten years since 9 11 and the US is packing up to leave Afghanistan and may lose interest in the region. It is possible that the Taliban may be back in Kabul after that and Pakistan may once more seek adventure on its eastern front. Basically we don't know what will happen. 

In 1962 the US was rushing military supplies too India, by 1971 it was supporting Pakistan against us. Till the early 80s Afghanistan had a pro India government, in two decades we had Kandhar. Again in 1971, Pakistanwas under the illusion that the US and China would never abandon it and that it could do whatever it liked in east Pakistan. The world is a capricious place and it would be wishful thinking to assume that the present favourable situation will last forever. The only way we can secure our future is by setting our house in order and addressing the anger of people in J&K, the northeast etc 

"I have not gone into the details of the case, nor do I plan to. He was found guilty at every stage of trial and appeal. Such bogus issues can be raised for virtually any case."

Arundhati goes beyond that. She spreads conspiracy theories like the NDA government carried out the attack to discredit Kashmiris. Lunatics like her need to be ignored just like the people who talked about US and Israel's hand in 9/11 were ignored. Thankfully barring commie Hindu, no one has given her any platform. She and her commie protege can mourn. Some jihadists can join them also.

 BI SAROJA and other Secu anti Modi brigade are afraid to take a clear cut  position on Afzal Guru's hanging .
Juban bund hein !!!

They  will soon blame Modi as by his frequent visits to Delhi the jittery UPA Govt post haste hanged Afzal Guru .So now we know where the hearts of these Anti Modi brigade are. Our friend Nassar even went to the extent of stating that Kargil was the creation of BJP .
Seems ISI has taken up this new line in view of the expose by its own ex ISI Boss .

Remember the Theories floatd like 9/11 done by USA and Israel and 26/11 was the creation of Hindus .Even Hindi version Editor Mr Mishra of OutLook was presenting the line that 26/11 was Hidutavies job while the 26/11 was on .

Even we were advised by the UPA's Minority Minister Antuley further justified & supported by Digi the General Secretary of Congress ( who say Osama ji-Hafiz Sahib ) that killings of Police Officers by Kasab Co was the job of Hindu Right .
And Samjohta was the job of Hindutavies .BJP and RSS are running Terror camps .

So there the Secus stand !!!! But we should understand their helplessness .

Good Riddance !!

More than anything else timing is troubling aspect of Guru’s hanging. Congress has again lowered itself in gutter level politics. There are many death convicts before Guru like Rajiv and Beant killers besides number of prisoners who have been convicted in cases of mass killing.

The communal Congress decided to selectively pick Guru for hanging. First they deliberately delayed his hanging like other convict to play vote bank politics. After Gujarat election to counter Modi’s ever rising popularity, Guru’s hanging is pure politically motivated decision.

It is most inhumane to use death row convict as a football to play politics and milk political dividends by conveniently choosing timing and manner of execution. Death row convicts are put in torturous solitary confinements of small cells. They are allowed to come out only once in a day for around an hour.

If one goes by Guru’s interview with AajTak, it seems he was a normal person who wanted to lead a normal family life but was manipulated and used by Jihadi forces. In interview he appeared well behaved, soft spoken and calm person who candidly described his story.

But law does not work on emotions. A finest humane being who behaves like angel in his personal life can still be convicted by court based upon facts and evidences of incident involving his violation of law. And someone who is rude, loud and selfish will be set free if court does not find any evidence against him.

Perhaps that’s the case with Afzal Guru.

kashmiris have been brainwashed for decades now. they have forgotten they are indians. they have forgotten what is right and what is wrong. attack on parliament was wrong and rightly given death sentence. the minds behind the terrrorist attack are more dangerous than the pawns who die.

why the kashmiris do not demand that along with afzal guru those pakistanis responsible maulana masood i guess and other terrorist be brought to india and hanged?

>> However I am raising some points not raised by Roy or addressed by Praveen Swamy

I have absolutely no interest in these.

I've always maintained that one is free to dislike or disagree with court judgements. At the end of the day, they have to be accepted.

I have not gone into the details of the case, nor do I plan to. He was found guilty at every stage of trial and appeal. Such bogus issues can be raised for virtually any case. How about the fact that "Hindutva terrorism" was uncovered by Karkare, who died under mysterious circumstances. Isn't that an exactly analogy to Sharma's case? Should we assume all Hindutva folks currently in prison (who unlike Guru incidentally, have not even been convicted yet), as innocent?

I do agree that he should have had representation of his choice. From what little I've read, only a partial attempt was made for the same. If true, that's a serious lapse. However, the courts had specifically ruled against these claims of his.

>> The only depressing part of this news is we will be now subjected to 10+ pages of drivel by Arundhati Roy.

www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/a-perfect-day-for-democracy/article4397705.ece

>>Unfortunately that does not seem to have happened in this case. He was not represented by a lawyer at trial stage and during appeal, courts rely on the arguments given in the trial court it seems

The canards of Aurandhati Roy in The Hindu are exposed in the following tweets

http://storify.com/Nivenomous/for-the-afzal-guru-did-not-get-a-fair-trial-crowd#publicize
 

Whatsinaname #44,

There is an article by Praveen Swamy www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-vanity-of-1312-truthtelling/article4400821.ece which clears some air over questions raised by Arundhati Roy. In  my view, with her hyperboles and ill researched contentions, Arundhati Roy is often a liability. However I am raising some points not raised by Roy or addressed by Praveen Swamy.

1. ACP Rajbir Singh and Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma of Special Cell, Delhi Police "cracked" the Parliament Attack case in two days. One of the accused SAR Geelani who was convicted by the trial court and sentenced to death, was later acquitted.

2. Both these Policemen were behind the infamous Ansal Plaza shootout in 2002 when a couple of businessmen were encountered and were sought to be passed off as LeT terrorists. Eye witness to the encounter,Dr.Hari Krishna was hounded

(3.Both these men their ends under controversial circumstances - One was shot dead by a property dealer and the other in murky Batla House encounter).

4 Later, an attempt was made on the life of Geelani. He was shot at outside his lawyer's house. Fingers were raised at Special Cell since only they had the neccessary technology to keep track of Geelani's movements (through phone tapping).

5.A couple of months earlier, there were reports of Samjhauta Express blast accused being behind the attack on Geelani. Here is a compilation of news reports that I had made at that time, sensing a rat fairy-tales-alive.blogspot.in/2012/12/new-twist-to-parliament-attack-case.html 

Are you suggesting that others do?

You can go through the links that I have given if they do not get blocked.

I have no plans of going through the links you mentioned, even if they are available. My question was simple, and based on your rather pompous assertion

But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent

suggesting that others are.

>> Unfortunately that does not seem to have happened in this case. He was not represented by a lawyer at trial stage and during appeal, courts rely on the arguments given in the trial court it seems

This is what caused the delay in response. I did some research on it, and saw that there might be some truth in this.

To be fair, he was given legal aid. However, he claimed dissatisfaction with it. In my books, legal aid that is not of your choice, is inadequate. Per an article by Indira Jaisingh (I haven't found a refutation), two of the four names he suggested declined, but there is no evidence, that the other two were approached.

If so, it is certainly a miscarriage of justice. That said, he brought up this exact same point in his appeals in both high court and supreme court, and both denied his contention, saying that it was an afterthought, and that he had not expressed these reservations earlier.

From what I could find on the topic, there is at least some chance that he did not get legal aid of his choice. If that's indeed true, it's really really wrong, and as much as it sticks in my craw to say this, I have to agree with those who believe that the judgement may have been flawed.

Not saying that it was. Just that, I can't criticize the people saying these things, unless I can find something that suggests otherwise.

 Akshay >>  And the governmeent once more hangs a Kashmiri separatist, this time against the advice of pro India politicians whose political future depends on Kashmir continuing to be part of India. Suddenly the separatists who were in disarray have a new issue to galvanise their movement.

The Kashmir Separatist Movement after 1984 blossomed and flourished through 1980s and 1990s, when USA ,  post Cold War victory was not strongly with India and treated Pakistan as a special friend.

A lot has changed in last 10 years. The very idea of pakistan has been questioned, China's strengtheing presence is forcing USA to slowly side India (against Pakistan). For the powerful nations of western world, independent Kashmir is not an option since they do not want yet another possible ally against west/in favour of China.

Given this, dont think separatism is going to flourish again  (in the valley) despite the hanging of Afzal guru. 

 Akshay >> And why do you keep refereing to Kashmiris as 'these people'. They are your countrymen.

They are our countrymen and therefore they should be subjected to same laws of land as the people of other Indian states such as TamilNadu or assam or Gujarat or Goa. So we should either Abrogate Article 370 of constitution, or apply it to all Indian states.

Till then, let the people of valley who live by separate rules be called "these people"/

 Akshay,

Your reasoning on strategic terms does have merit in theory. But in reality, 2013 is not 1984. Kashmir seperatism cannot survive without pakistan support. Most of the seperatists who were not satisfied with accord were Pakistan stooges. Pakistan of 2013 is in no position to exert the influence that it did in 1984 with support of Mujahaddins. Even US was on their side then. But post 9/11, Pakistan will not find support for this. Do you seriously believe that Kashmiris are execited to be part of a failed state Pakistan ? They know they will not survive as a independent state. India is in far stronger position wrt Kashmir. So this was a good time to send message that India cannot tolerate the terrorism and the perperators will be punished. The govt screwed up with execution by not informing his wife and not handing over the body and also the timing of the execution was political, but there is nothing wrong with execution. 

"And why do you keep refereing to Kashmiris as 'these people'. They are your countrymen. "

I referred them as "They". So ? I would have referred to Bongs or Gujjus same way. That does not mean that they are not my countrymen. The question is whether they think they are. With experience of my parent's recent kashmir trip, I feel they have started to think that way. 

>>And why do you keep refereing to Kashmiris as 'these people'. They are your countrymen.

Really? Let them first acknowledge it. Then we will think about these people.

 @Maha

Forget about healing wounds for a minute. In pure strategic terms this was an avoidable decision. We don't learn from history and the historic parallel is scary. After the 1971 war, Pakistan did not raise the Kashmir issue in an international forum for 20 years. We had a golden opportunity to be generous and settle the issue internally with the separatists and kick the Pakistanis permanently out of the picture. Aside from the Abdullah  Indira pact which did not satisfy Kashmiri separatists, we didn't do much and squandered that opportunity. In 1984 the government hanged a separatist leader called Maqbool Bhatt. He became a rallying point for sepratist sentiments in the valley and to this day his death anniversary is observed there. The government implemented the supreme court order then oblivious of the changing strategic situation in India's near-abroad, with the Afghan war gathering pace and a growing radicalisation in the region. 

Cut to 2013. Its been 10 years since Pakistan has been unable to meddle in Kashmir due to its own problems. Theres been relative peace in the valley and we've had a second goden opprtunity to settle the issue from a position of strength. And yet with the US preparing to leave Afghanistan, the time window is narrowing. And the governmeent once more hangs a Kashmiri separatist, this time against the advice of pro India politicians whose political future depends on Kashmir continuing to be part of India. Suddenly the separatists who were in disarray have a new issue to galvanise their movement. 

And why do you keep refereing to Kashmiris as 'these people'. They are your countrymen. 

There can be times in life when universal opinion can be against you for no fault. You find it’s almost impossible to convince people who could also be victim of perception. It feels like selling voice in the market of deaf & dumb.

If Afzal Guru was indeed guilty then he was very small actor in the Pakistan based Jihadi design of low intensity conflicts against India.

But if he was innocent then he is just one of countless victims of widespread injustice with Indian state playing leading role.

Maha,

>> The only depressing part of this news is we will be now subjected to 10+ pages of drivel by Arundhati Roy.

www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/a-perfect-day-for-democracy/article4397705.ece

Outlook India : Parliament Attack Convict Afzal Guru Hanged
New Delhi | Feb 09, 2013
 

The Supreme court confirmed the death sentence in 2004.Execution was carried out in 2013. The GOI has much to explain.Can a chronological report be prepared and the responsibility fixed for delay in processing Afzal's mercy petition .Delhi's CM and the former President of India must be held accountable for misusing their discretionary powers.Let the Supreme court prescribe a specific time schedule for finalising the mercy petition so that it is not misused for cheap political ends by the ruling dispensation.

A K SAXENA  (A retired civil servant)

www.aksaxena.co.in

blog.aksaxena.co.in

 FWIW let me put in my two bits, not that anyone who holds a different opinion is likely to change his mind.

1. I am opposed to the death penalty. I believe it serves no purpose as a deterrence and is merely an act of retribution.
2. We can argue the merits or demerits of Afzal Guru's conviction till the cows come home. It serves no purpose. If everyone and his uncle is free to challenge the Supreme Court's decisions, then there will never ever be an end to the judicial process. The decisions of the Supreme Court are not final because the court is infallible. The court is infallible because its decisions are final (or at least they are supposed to be).
3. We also have a tendency often expressed in these forums to laud any judicial decision with which we are in agreement (Daniels come to judgement) and cast aspersions on judges if the decisions go against our wishes.
4. Was the execution of Afzal Guru a political decision? Of course it was. That doesn't mean it has to be condemned for that reason. All governments take decisions based on their appreciation of the political ramifications.
5. Was Guru executed on the altar of political expediency? I don't believe so. Those commentators who are gloating that the Congress has taken the wind out of the BJP's sails are in fact accusing the Congress of doing so.

#31

If NDA had been in power instead of UPA, he would have been escorted to pak by a NDA minister.

 "I feel there are things more important than upholding the rule of law, such as healing the wounds of alienated Indian citizens"

How long we have to wait until so called wounds of alienated indian citizens are healed ? They have got their special 356 status, They have got hindus kicked out from the valley. They can elect their own government. The kashmir tourism is back in business now. If they have issue with Army's presence, they are responsible for it. The problem is not with the Indian Government that is executing the convicted terrorist. The problem is with seperatist leaders and lunatics like Arundhati who feed these people with conspiracy theories and lies. As long as they are there, there is not chance of getting rid of alienation. 

 12 years too late, for the victims and for the nation.  Good riddance...

What about all the matyr's who laid down their life to capture Masood Azhar?  Why was Masood not hanged? Why did the NDA not ask for Masood Azhar when they were hugging and kissing Musharraf? Ok, maybe not Masood, maybe just Dawood.  Oh but why were they hugging and kissing Musharraf when he caused the death of so many martyrs (of course when the NDA led govt was sleeping at the wheel).  

>> "I am sure law has been upheld, but am not sure justice has been done. Justice as in Truth and Justice." - Saroja

For the jokers of left liberatti, the quest for truth and justice is a never-ending pursuit. Their very livelihood, doles, seminars and foreign aids depend on this "pursuit". To be successful, this quest has to be eternal and unending. Hence, even if truth stared them in the face, these morons would look the other way.

 >> But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent.

Are you suggesting that others do?

You can go through the links that I have given if they do not get blocked. 

>> where defense had a chance to present its case.

Unfortunately that does not seem to have happened in this case. He was not represented by a lawyer at trial stage and during appeal, courts rely on the arguments given in the trial court it seems, Without any prejudice listen to what people will say in coming days, especially his co accused SAR Geelani who was acquitted because he had legal representation. 

Just because an article gets published in Tehelka does not make it Tehelka's view, Some months back I had heard Tehelka's Harinder Baweja speak against Afzal. 

I am hypocritic enough to want to believe that Afzal was guilty and was not framed.

I am sure law has been upheld, but am not sure justice has been done. Justice as in Truth and Justice.

>> But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent.

Are you suggesting that others do?

>> If he were guilty, I have no regrets.

How do we determine guilt or innocence? Tehelka or courts?

You are the one who makes a lot of song and dance about archeology reports being published in Manthan, and not peer reviewed journals. And now, you are suggesting that Tehelka opinions should be taken more seriously than court judgements (multiple levels), where defense had a chance to present its case.

Is there no end to your hypocrisy?

 #23,FedUp Indian,

I would have put it differently. I would have given more importance to truth, and sometimes there is miscarriage of justice. I am not sure we really have an understanding of how the parliament attack took place. I have a book "!3 Dec - A Reader  -- The Strange Case of the Attack on the Indian Parliament". It has several articles by people like Indira Jaisingh. I am giving link to a couple of the articles which have appeared elsewhere also 

However the links appear blocked. You can look at them later - Sonia Jabber - Hang the Truth - Hindustan Times 17th Oct 2006 

Another one is from Tehelka - blocked again but I got a copy from a blog -- www.indiaresists.com/afzal-guru-guilty-of-an-unsolved-crime/

As you know, recently there was an interesting news about the Samjhauta Express blast accused having fired at SAR Geelani who was an accused in Parliament Attack case, was sentenced to death and later acquitted.-- www.rediff.com/news/report/system-was-unhappy-with-my-acquittal-parl-attack-accused/20121227.htm 

Listen to all the stories that will come in the coming days with an open mind. I really feel sad,

Many of the opposition to Afzal Guru's execution came from people opposed to death sentence, people wanting peace in J&K , thereby conceding guilt of Afzal. But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent. If he were guilty, I have no regrets. Have a look at www.kashmirnewz.com/n00048.html

 @ Akshay - People will not like what I am saying. I feel there are things more important than upholding the rule of law, such as healing the wounds of alienated Indian citizens.

Akshay - it is nice of you to admit that people will not like what you are saying. It takes courage to put out a perspective that is sure to get a pasting. A couple of points: 

The primacy of healing the wounds of martyrs' families takes pre-eminence - after all , they tried defending us! They were the ones alienated by successive governments and people who they thought would be faithful for their sacrifices.

emotional integration of India......

This portrayal of a yet-to-be healed wound that India seem to be nursing with a troubled region is simply unsustainable. These sentiments have been used in conflicts multiple times before - both in India and around the world. If a conspirator in attack on India's parliament needs to be mollycoddled simply because he belongs to a certain state and community - it just opens up a can of worms. 

benign inaction.....

This is precisely the same reason Congress keeps coming back to power - people's benign inaction, status quo, chalta hai attitude. We like it because it does not affect us - we are not the martyrs' families nor are we directly affected by the benign inaction - simply armchair sermonizers. 

>> but poor BJP! It lost a couple of vote-getting slogans!

Teda-wari and Doggy Singh couldn't have put it better.

Good that fear of BJP is making even an anti-national party like Congress do the right thing.

This act of executing Afzal Guru is neither the logical conclusion of the Parliament attack trial nor a closure for the victims' families. It is just Sushil Shinde's ploy to win back some of the Hindu votes that the Congress thought it had lost with his moronic "Hindu/Saffron" terrorism comments.

"I feel there are things more important than upholding the rule of law, such as healing the wounds of alienated Indian citizens."

In that case, perhaps you and Saroja should quit harping about Modi. After all, the Gujarat riots started when a Muslim mob burnt alive 59 Hindus in the Sabarmati Express, most of them women and children - you can heal our wounds by moving on to some other issue instead of demanding Modi's head even though he has not been charged or found guilty of anything in a court of law.

This belief that "there are things more important than upholding the rule of law" is a primitive, desi way of thinking which is why Salman Khan is running around scot-free even though he killed a man in a drunk-driving accident, and why our politicians like Kurien feel free to rape (literally) and loot the country without fear of being imprisoned. We need to get it into our heads that we should be a nation of laws, not a nation of men, like they say in the West - otherwise, we will be stuck in this backward, feudal cesspool forever.

 Akshay,

I agree with you.

>> AKSHAY - People will not like what I am saying.
>>>> SAROJA - I agree with your kind words.

UPA wanted to keep Kasab and Guru as the trump cards to be dealt in time for 2014, but Modi has forced its hand. Ofcourse, relentless pressure on UPA by BJP and the opposition helped Modi deal the final blow.

The only depressing part of this news is we will be now subjected to 10+ pages of drivel by Arundhati Roy.

People are fiercely debating the hanging of Afzal Guru,now that done.

Congress must show guts in getting life term for those who plundered India

UPA in election mode is making BJP's job difficult now. UPA has a chance to bury BJP if they can now build Ram Mandir before 2014 election :-)) But there is possibility that third front may become powerful. And that is the last thing that India needs.

The terrorist who launched attacks on the Parliament deserved wat he has met in the end. There are few more who trial should be fast-tracked and justice done with promptitude. Terrorists have no religion and  should meet same fate as Afzal Guru.

Hope the trial in the pending cases would be expedited.

well, the Supreme Court had recognized that the evidence against Afzal was circumstantial and that the police had not followed legal procedures. However, the judgment stated that the the attack on the Indian Parliament had “shaken the entire nation, and the collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender.”

Afzal was hanged to satisfy the collective conscience of a society baying for the blood of anyone muslim/kashmiri.

...whatever happened to Modi after gujarat pogrom.

First kasab and now afzal guru. Next is a budget full of sops on 28 Feb 2013 and then loksabha will be dissolved in the first week of Mar 2013 to go for a snap poll in Apr-May 2013. 

The BJP will definitely lose some votes to congress due to hanging of kasab and afzal. Congress will gain these votes from the BJP, but will lose some muslim votes to Samajwadi Party and left parties particularly in UP, Keral and WB.

So, at the end of the day it will be loss for the BJP, no-profit-no-loss for the Congress and gain for the left parties and Samajwadi.

Afzal Guru got what he deserved,he committed treachery.

Why was the action delayed is a larger question ? Of course Afzal's hanging is political. At least the families of the martyr have got  the justice. And if the BJP lost some votes they will be happy to lose it - No one is that cheap as people imagine politicians to be.

Akshay,

I agree with your kind words. 

Kasab and Afzal got what they deserved, but poor BJP! It lost a couple of vote-getting slogans!

 People will not like what I am saying. I feel there are things more important than upholding the rule of law, such as healing the wounds of alienated Indian citizens. There must have been a reason why the pro India politicians of that state were urging caution on this matter. We should have listened to them. The emotional integration of India is more important than even the implementation of the highest court's order. Sometimes benign inaction and not bowing to populist clamour serves the country better.

like He said , der aaye duurust aaye.

yeah right, like America if India does the same thing and get rid of dawood ibrahim, bjp would have to say good bye to winning elections. but lets not fantasize.

Arundhati Roy must be in mourning.

Good news !!.

Osama is eliminated by America in distant Pak-Afghan border.Here,it has taken 8 long years to execute Afzal Guru,despite supreme court's reminders.

kishoredasmunshi, Kolkatta.
you must be out of your senses.The congress is not doing any favour to the country.it has already received enough flak from the supreme court and sensed a very strong reprimand in the offing for not taking action on its order.this seems to be the only country in the world which will take action on a conviction by an apex court after multiple reminders.
its not a BJP issue for hanging Afzal.as its a demand of the country to punish a traitor.The congress did all it can to delay it putting ahead various lousy and silly issues.
will you as a congress supporter demand an show some spine to ask your leaders to bring back another fugitive who is behind all the serial blasts in India,man behind the printing and circulation of fake currencies,drug running,arms running etc called Dawood Ibrahim.
I will salute the congress and vote for it for ever if it can bring back Dawood and face the law o the land.But this will never happen.

Ajamal Hanged,Afzal Hanged and now who remains is to be hanged is the dreaded fugitve Dawood Ibrahim.He was responsible to countrys first serial blasts and the subsequent ones as well.He is being protected by the notorious ISI and Pakistan has been denying this like how they denied the presence of Osama Bin Laden there.The congress has something to hid when it comes to arresting hi. they make arrangements to talk to other countries to bring back other criminals like Bastavade while Dawood it seems is privilged as his investemnnts are to be protected by the beneficiries like those people who preach seuclarism and aman ki aasha stuff.

it is not surprisng then why the congress never raises this issue with the Pakistani s even scores of meetings were held called as peace talks.

Mud on parivars face which always maintained that UPA will not hang him. Kudos to UPA and Rule of law!

The issue of hanging Afzal Guru which the peopleof this country have forgotten is not a breaking news for them.it could be a shocker for the kashmiries and a concern for Omar Abdulla.

it was long over due but the pseudo secular congress and its cronies were only playing politics over his hanging.and when it sensed that the supreme court will come heavilly on it the congress thought its now or never.It cant score point over the BJP as hanging a traitor is not a pride but a duty and wish of the people and respecting the justice system.

Arundhati Roy must be in mourning.

kishoredasmunshi, Kolkatta.
you must be out of your senses.The congress is not doing any favour to the country.it has already received enough flak from the supreme court and sensed a very strong reprimand in the offing for not taking action on its order.this seems to be the only country in the world which will take action on a conviction by an apex court after multiple reminders.
its not a BJP issue for hanging Afzal.as its a demand of the country to punish a traitor.The congress did all it can to delay it putting ahead various lousy and silly issues.
will you as a congress supporter demand an show some spine to ask your leaders to bring back another fugitive who is behind all the serial blasts in India,man behind the printing and circulation of fake currencies,drug running,arms running etc called Dawood Ibrahim.
I will salute the congress and vote for it for ever if it can bring back Dawood and face the law o the land.But this will never happen.

>> but poor BJP! It lost a couple of vote-getting slogans!

Teda-wari and Doggy Singh couldn't have put it better.

Good that fear of BJP is making even an anti-national party like Congress do the right thing.

The issue of hanging Afzal Guru which the peopleof this country have forgotten is not a breaking news for them.it could be a shocker for the kashmiries and a concern for Omar Abdulla.

it was long over due but the pseudo secular congress and its cronies were only playing politics over his hanging.and when it sensed that the supreme court will come heavilly on it the congress thought its now or never.It cant score point over the BJP as hanging a traitor is not a pride but a duty and wish of the people and respecting the justice system.

>> "I am sure law has been upheld, but am not sure justice has been done. Justice as in Truth and Justice." - Saroja

For the jokers of left liberatti, the quest for truth and justice is a never-ending pursuit. Their very livelihood, doles, seminars and foreign aids depend on this "pursuit". To be successful, this quest has to be eternal and unending. Hence, even if truth stared them in the face, these morons would look the other way.

UPA wanted to keep Kasab and Guru as the trump cards to be dealt in time for 2014, but Modi has forced its hand. Ofcourse, relentless pressure on UPA by BJP and the opposition helped Modi deal the final blow.

Why was the action delayed is a larger question ? Of course Afzal's hanging is political. At least the families of the martyr have got  the justice. And if the BJP lost some votes they will be happy to lose it - No one is that cheap as people imagine politicians to be.

Ajamal Hanged,Afzal Hanged and now who remains is to be hanged is the dreaded fugitve Dawood Ibrahim.He was responsible to countrys first serial blasts and the subsequent ones as well.He is being protected by the notorious ISI and Pakistan has been denying this like how they denied the presence of Osama Bin Laden there.The congress has something to hid when it comes to arresting hi. they make arrangements to talk to other countries to bring back other criminals like Bastavade while Dawood it seems is privilged as his investemnnts are to be protected by the beneficiries like those people who preach seuclarism and aman ki aasha stuff.

it is not surprisng then why the congress never raises this issue with the Pakistani s even scores of meetings were held called as peace talks.

 @ Akshay - People will not like what I am saying. I feel there are things more important than upholding the rule of law, such as healing the wounds of alienated Indian citizens.

Akshay - it is nice of you to admit that people will not like what you are saying. It takes courage to put out a perspective that is sure to get a pasting. A couple of points: 

The primacy of healing the wounds of martyrs' families takes pre-eminence - after all , they tried defending us! They were the ones alienated by successive governments and people who they thought would be faithful for their sacrifices.

emotional integration of India......

This portrayal of a yet-to-be healed wound that India seem to be nursing with a troubled region is simply unsustainable. These sentiments have been used in conflicts multiple times before - both in India and around the world. If a conspirator in attack on India's parliament needs to be mollycoddled simply because he belongs to a certain state and community - it just opens up a can of worms. 

benign inaction.....

This is precisely the same reason Congress keeps coming back to power - people's benign inaction, status quo, chalta hai attitude. We like it because it does not affect us - we are not the martyrs' families nor are we directly affected by the benign inaction - simply armchair sermonizers. 

The only depressing part of this news is we will be now subjected to 10+ pages of drivel by Arundhati Roy.

Osama is eliminated by America in distant Pak-Afghan border.Here,it has taken 8 long years to execute Afzal Guru,despite supreme court's reminders.

>> But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent.

Are you suggesting that others do?

>> If he were guilty, I have no regrets.

How do we determine guilt or innocence? Tehelka or courts?

You are the one who makes a lot of song and dance about archeology reports being published in Manthan, and not peer reviewed journals. And now, you are suggesting that Tehelka opinions should be taken more seriously than court judgements (multiple levels), where defense had a chance to present its case.

Is there no end to your hypocrisy?

"I feel there are things more important than upholding the rule of law, such as healing the wounds of alienated Indian citizens."

In that case, perhaps you and Saroja should quit harping about Modi. After all, the Gujarat riots started when a Muslim mob burnt alive 59 Hindus in the Sabarmati Express, most of them women and children - you can heal our wounds by moving on to some other issue instead of demanding Modi's head even though he has not been charged or found guilty of anything in a court of law.

This belief that "there are things more important than upholding the rule of law" is a primitive, desi way of thinking which is why Salman Khan is running around scot-free even though he killed a man in a drunk-driving accident, and why our politicians like Kurien feel free to rape (literally) and loot the country without fear of being imprisoned. We need to get it into our heads that we should be a nation of laws, not a nation of men, like they say in the West - otherwise, we will be stuck in this backward, feudal cesspool forever.

like He said , der aaye duurust aaye.

yeah right, like America if India does the same thing and get rid of dawood ibrahim, bjp would have to say good bye to winning elections. but lets not fantasize.

>> " BI SAROJA and other Secu anti Modi brigade are afraid to take a clear cut position on Afzal Guru's hanging ." - AK Ghai

The mullah apologists and left liberatti have a long and tortous history of rubbishing court judgements and enquiries. Some of the most (in)famous examples are Shah Bano, Babri land title, Afzal Guru, Batla, Gujarat SIT, Binayak Sen, Hemant Karkare et al.

If these jokers could have their way, Sharia retards and Commie kangaroos would adorn our justice system, treating conspiracy theories as sacrosanct despite facts.staring them in face. These lousy bunch of sickular bigots scream shrill for Kasab, Guru and Batla boys, but are ever-ready to convict Modi, BJP and RSS at mere mention of allegations.

One could have forgiven them if they did it in pursuit of their idieologies. The fact that these morons are tainted by such things as Fai junkets, Saudi petro-dollars and ISI funding, makes them almost comparable to anti-national terrorists.

Afzal Guru got what he deserved,he committed treachery.

 "I feel there are things more important than upholding the rule of law, such as healing the wounds of alienated Indian citizens"

How long we have to wait until so called wounds of alienated indian citizens are healed ? They have got their special 356 status, They have got hindus kicked out from the valley. They can elect their own government. The kashmir tourism is back in business now. If they have issue with Army's presence, they are responsible for it. The problem is not with the Indian Government that is executing the convicted terrorist. The problem is with seperatist leaders and lunatics like Arundhati who feed these people with conspiracy theories and lies. As long as they are there, there is not chance of getting rid of alienation. 

What about all the matyr's who laid down their life to capture Masood Azhar?  Why was Masood not hanged? Why did the NDA not ask for Masood Azhar when they were hugging and kissing Musharraf? Ok, maybe not Masood, maybe just Dawood.  Oh but why were they hugging and kissing Musharraf when he caused the death of so many martyrs (of course when the NDA led govt was sleeping at the wheel).  

 #23,FedUp Indian,

I would have put it differently. I would have given more importance to truth, and sometimes there is miscarriage of justice. I am not sure we really have an understanding of how the parliament attack took place. I have a book "!3 Dec - A Reader  -- The Strange Case of the Attack on the Indian Parliament". It has several articles by people like Indira Jaisingh. I am giving link to a couple of the articles which have appeared elsewhere also 

However the links appear blocked. You can look at them later - Sonia Jabber - Hang the Truth - Hindustan Times 17th Oct 2006 

Another one is from Tehelka - blocked again but I got a copy from a blog -- www.indiaresists.com/afzal-guru-guilty-of-an-unsolved-crime/

As you know, recently there was an interesting news about the Samjhauta Express blast accused having fired at SAR Geelani who was an accused in Parliament Attack case, was sentenced to death and later acquitted.-- www.rediff.com/news/report/system-was-unhappy-with-my-acquittal-parl-attack-accused/20121227.htm 

Listen to all the stories that will come in the coming days with an open mind. I really feel sad,

Many of the opposition to Afzal Guru's execution came from people opposed to death sentence, people wanting peace in J&K , thereby conceding guilt of Afzal. But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent. If he were guilty, I have no regrets. Have a look at www.kashmirnewz.com/n00048.html

>> AKSHAY - People will not like what I am saying.
>>>> SAROJA - I agree with your kind words.

 People will not like what I am saying. I feel there are things more important than upholding the rule of law, such as healing the wounds of alienated Indian citizens. There must have been a reason why the pro India politicians of that state were urging caution on this matter. We should have listened to them. The emotional integration of India is more important than even the implementation of the highest court's order. Sometimes benign inaction and not bowing to populist clamour serves the country better.

 Lope Sahib

You said I am not pro Secularism .Fine .But yes  I consider my self an honest Secular and also selct Muslims for jobs plus fund some of the minorities's education .I never wanted to say but you forced me.

So you call your self a Secualr what have your Secular brothers done for Muslims for the uplift of Muslims ? Where are Sachar Reports and other such recomendations or first take right on resources or job reservations ??  Christians are better off due liberal education and fundings by the Church But Muslim Clergy what ever the Petro Dollars they recieve spend on Madaris but not building Secular Educational institutes imparting Modern sicience.

Now if I criticse these retrogative thugs then liberals like you call me Hindutavi.Minorities sadly sold their Votes dirt cheap .And inturn you have been voting worthless Sarkars for the past 67 yrs.

Dear Lope sahib await the withdrawl of USA from Afganistan then we will talk again on this subject . Christians too will be the victims of Jihadies in Islamic Countries as in Egypt ,Algeria and other Islamic Majority countries.

You are aware I hope what is happening to Christians in Kashmir and Pandits .Are Hindus or Togidias or Modies responsible ?? What happened to Professor in Kerela whose hand was cut ? Now those very hardliners and Congress with help of Christain Party all the three are ruling Kerela  .

Did the Teacher whos ehand has been cut got his job back ? No. Why ?/ Becaus ethe fear of backlash from the hand cutters.

If you really call your a Secular then be an honest one otherwise dime a dozen  Nakli Sicuklars here and crores in India ar eroaming and doing incalcuable damage to Country  .

Lope Sahib :

Itbidaye Isak hein,Tota hein Kaya 

Agey Agey dekhiye hota hein kaya !

If Hindutavi Togida is hate filled then  there are thousands of Secu brand Togdias  too .

 

Good Riddance !!

More than anything else timing is troubling aspect of Guru’s hanging. Congress has again lowered itself in gutter level politics. There are many death convicts before Guru like Rajiv and Beant killers besides number of prisoners who have been convicted in cases of mass killing.

The communal Congress decided to selectively pick Guru for hanging. First they deliberately delayed his hanging like other convict to play vote bank politics. After Gujarat election to counter Modi’s ever rising popularity, Guru’s hanging is pure politically motivated decision.

It is most inhumane to use death row convict as a football to play politics and milk political dividends by conveniently choosing timing and manner of execution. Death row convicts are put in torturous solitary confinements of small cells. They are allowed to come out only once in a day for around an hour.

If one goes by Guru’s interview with AajTak, it seems he was a normal person who wanted to lead a normal family life but was manipulated and used by Jihadi forces. In interview he appeared well behaved, soft spoken and calm person who candidly described his story.

But law does not work on emotions. A finest humane being who behaves like angel in his personal life can still be convicted by court based upon facts and evidences of incident involving his violation of law. And someone who is rude, loud and selfish will be set free if court does not find any evidence against him.

Perhaps that’s the case with Afzal Guru.

 >> But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent.

Are you suggesting that others do?

You can go through the links that I have given if they do not get blocked. 

>> where defense had a chance to present its case.

Unfortunately that does not seem to have happened in this case. He was not represented by a lawyer at trial stage and during appeal, courts rely on the arguments given in the trial court it seems, Without any prejudice listen to what people will say in coming days, especially his co accused SAR Geelani who was acquitted because he had legal representation. 

Just because an article gets published in Tehelka does not make it Tehelka's view, Some months back I had heard Tehelka's Harinder Baweja speak against Afzal. 

I am hypocritic enough to want to believe that Afzal was guilty and was not framed.

I am sure law has been upheld, but am not sure justice has been done. Justice as in Truth and Justice.

People are fiercely debating the hanging of Afzal Guru,now that done.

Congress must show guts in getting life term for those who plundered India

Kasab and Afzal got what they deserved, but poor BJP! It lost a couple of vote-getting slogans!

Good news !!.

Mud on parivars face which always maintained that UPA will not hang him. Kudos to UPA and Rule of law!

"I have not gone into the details of the case, nor do I plan to. He was found guilty at every stage of trial and appeal. Such bogus issues can be raised for virtually any case."

Arundhati goes beyond that. She spreads conspiracy theories like the NDA government carried out the attack to discredit Kashmiris. Lunatics like her need to be ignored just like the people who talked about US and Israel's hand in 9/11 were ignored. Thankfully barring commie Hindu, no one has given her any platform. She and her commie protege can mourn. Some jihadists can join them also.

kashmiris have been brainwashed for decades now. they have forgotten they are indians. they have forgotten what is right and what is wrong. attack on parliament was wrong and rightly given death sentence. the minds behind the terrrorist attack are more dangerous than the pawns who die.

why the kashmiris do not demand that along with afzal guru those pakistanis responsible maulana masood i guess and other terrorist be brought to india and hanged?

Whatsinaname #44,

There is an article by Praveen Swamy www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-vanity-of-1312-truthtelling/article4400821.ece which clears some air over questions raised by Arundhati Roy. In  my view, with her hyperboles and ill researched contentions, Arundhati Roy is often a liability. However I am raising some points not raised by Roy or addressed by Praveen Swamy.

1. ACP Rajbir Singh and Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma of Special Cell, Delhi Police "cracked" the Parliament Attack case in two days. One of the accused SAR Geelani who was convicted by the trial court and sentenced to death, was later acquitted.

2. Both these Policemen were behind the infamous Ansal Plaza shootout in 2002 when a couple of businessmen were encountered and were sought to be passed off as LeT terrorists. Eye witness to the encounter,Dr.Hari Krishna was hounded

(3.Both these men their ends under controversial circumstances - One was shot dead by a property dealer and the other in murky Batla House encounter).

4 Later, an attempt was made on the life of Geelani. He was shot at outside his lawyer's house. Fingers were raised at Special Cell since only they had the neccessary technology to keep track of Geelani's movements (through phone tapping).

5.A couple of months earlier, there were reports of Samjhauta Express blast accused being behind the attack on Geelani. Here is a compilation of news reports that I had made at that time, sensing a rat fairy-tales-alive.blogspot.in/2012/12/new-twist-to-parliament-attack-case.html 

 Akshay >> And why do you keep refereing to Kashmiris as 'these people'. They are your countrymen.

They are our countrymen and therefore they should be subjected to same laws of land as the people of other Indian states such as TamilNadu or assam or Gujarat or Goa. So we should either Abrogate Article 370 of constitution, or apply it to all Indian states.

Till then, let the people of valley who live by separate rules be called "these people"/

 Akshay,

Your reasoning on strategic terms does have merit in theory. But in reality, 2013 is not 1984. Kashmir seperatism cannot survive without pakistan support. Most of the seperatists who were not satisfied with accord were Pakistan stooges. Pakistan of 2013 is in no position to exert the influence that it did in 1984 with support of Mujahaddins. Even US was on their side then. But post 9/11, Pakistan will not find support for this. Do you seriously believe that Kashmiris are execited to be part of a failed state Pakistan ? They know they will not survive as a independent state. India is in far stronger position wrt Kashmir. So this was a good time to send message that India cannot tolerate the terrorism and the perperators will be punished. The govt screwed up with execution by not informing his wife and not handing over the body and also the timing of the execution was political, but there is nothing wrong with execution. 

"And why do you keep refereing to Kashmiris as 'these people'. They are your countrymen. "

I referred them as "They". So ? I would have referred to Bongs or Gujjus same way. That does not mean that they are not my countrymen. The question is whether they think they are. With experience of my parent's recent kashmir trip, I feel they have started to think that way. 

>>And why do you keep refereing to Kashmiris as 'these people'. They are your countrymen.

Really? Let them first acknowledge it. Then we will think about these people.

#31

If NDA had been in power instead of UPA, he would have been escorted to pak by a NDA minister.

This act of executing Afzal Guru is neither the logical conclusion of the Parliament attack trial nor a closure for the victims' families. It is just Sushil Shinde's ploy to win back some of the Hindu votes that the Congress thought it had lost with his moronic "Hindu/Saffron" terrorism comments.

First kasab and now afzal guru. Next is a budget full of sops on 28 Feb 2013 and then loksabha will be dissolved in the first week of Mar 2013 to go for a snap poll in Apr-May 2013. 

The BJP will definitely lose some votes to congress due to hanging of kasab and afzal. Congress will gain these votes from the BJP, but will lose some muslim votes to Samajwadi Party and left parties particularly in UP, Keral and WB.

So, at the end of the day it will be loss for the BJP, no-profit-no-loss for the Congress and gain for the left parties and Samajwadi.

 @Maha "But post 9/11, Pakistan will not find support for this"

@Ramki ""A lot has changed in last 10 years. The very idea of pakistan has been questioned, China's strengtheing presence is forcing USA to slowly side India (against Pakistan). For the powerful nations of western world, independent Kashmir is not an option since they do not want yet another possible ally against west/in favour of China"

Its more than ten years since 9 11 and the US is packing up to leave Afghanistan and may lose interest in the region. It is possible that the Taliban may be back in Kabul after that and Pakistan may once more seek adventure on its eastern front. Basically we don't know what will happen. 

In 1962 the US was rushing military supplies too India, by 1971 it was supporting Pakistan against us. Till the early 80s Afghanistan had a pro India government, in two decades we had Kandhar. Again in 1971, Pakistanwas under the illusion that the US and China would never abandon it and that it could do whatever it liked in east Pakistan. The world is a capricious place and it would be wishful thinking to assume that the present favourable situation will last forever. The only way we can secure our future is by setting our house in order and addressing the anger of people in J&K, the northeast etc 

 BI SAROJA and other Secu anti Modi brigade are afraid to take a clear cut  position on Afzal Guru's hanging .
Juban bund hein !!!

They  will soon blame Modi as by his frequent visits to Delhi the jittery UPA Govt post haste hanged Afzal Guru .So now we know where the hearts of these Anti Modi brigade are. Our friend Nassar even went to the extent of stating that Kargil was the creation of BJP .
Seems ISI has taken up this new line in view of the expose by its own ex ISI Boss .

Remember the Theories floatd like 9/11 done by USA and Israel and 26/11 was the creation of Hindus .Even Hindi version Editor Mr Mishra of OutLook was presenting the line that 26/11 was Hidutavies job while the 26/11 was on .

Even we were advised by the UPA's Minority Minister Antuley further justified & supported by Digi the General Secretary of Congress ( who say Osama ji-Hafiz Sahib ) that killings of Police Officers by Kasab Co was the job of Hindu Right .
And Samjohta was the job of Hindutavies .BJP and RSS are running Terror camps .

So there the Secus stand !!!! But we should understand their helplessness .

 Akshay >>  And the governmeent once more hangs a Kashmiri separatist, this time against the advice of pro India politicians whose political future depends on Kashmir continuing to be part of India. Suddenly the separatists who were in disarray have a new issue to galvanise their movement.

The Kashmir Separatist Movement after 1984 blossomed and flourished through 1980s and 1990s, when USA ,  post Cold War victory was not strongly with India and treated Pakistan as a special friend.

A lot has changed in last 10 years. The very idea of pakistan has been questioned, China's strengtheing presence is forcing USA to slowly side India (against Pakistan). For the powerful nations of western world, independent Kashmir is not an option since they do not want yet another possible ally against west/in favour of China.

Given this, dont think separatism is going to flourish again  (in the valley) despite the hanging of Afzal guru. 

 @Maha

Forget about healing wounds for a minute. In pure strategic terms this was an avoidable decision. We don't learn from history and the historic parallel is scary. After the 1971 war, Pakistan did not raise the Kashmir issue in an international forum for 20 years. We had a golden opportunity to be generous and settle the issue internally with the separatists and kick the Pakistanis permanently out of the picture. Aside from the Abdullah  Indira pact which did not satisfy Kashmiri separatists, we didn't do much and squandered that opportunity. In 1984 the government hanged a separatist leader called Maqbool Bhatt. He became a rallying point for sepratist sentiments in the valley and to this day his death anniversary is observed there. The government implemented the supreme court order then oblivious of the changing strategic situation in India's near-abroad, with the Afghan war gathering pace and a growing radicalisation in the region. 

Cut to 2013. Its been 10 years since Pakistan has been unable to meddle in Kashmir due to its own problems. Theres been relative peace in the valley and we've had a second goden opprtunity to settle the issue from a position of strength. And yet with the US preparing to leave Afghanistan, the time window is narrowing. And the governmeent once more hangs a Kashmiri separatist, this time against the advice of pro India politicians whose political future depends on Kashmir continuing to be part of India. Suddenly the separatists who were in disarray have a new issue to galvanise their movement. 

And why do you keep refereing to Kashmiris as 'these people'. They are your countrymen. 

There can be times in life when universal opinion can be against you for no fault. You find it’s almost impossible to convince people who could also be victim of perception. It feels like selling voice in the market of deaf & dumb.

If Afzal Guru was indeed guilty then he was very small actor in the Pakistan based Jihadi design of low intensity conflicts against India.

But if he was innocent then he is just one of countless victims of widespread injustice with Indian state playing leading role.

Maha,

>> The only depressing part of this news is we will be now subjected to 10+ pages of drivel by Arundhati Roy.

www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/a-perfect-day-for-democracy/article4397705.ece

Outlook India : Parliament Attack Convict Afzal Guru Hanged
New Delhi | Feb 09, 2013
 

The Supreme court confirmed the death sentence in 2004.Execution was carried out in 2013. The GOI has much to explain.Can a chronological report be prepared and the responsibility fixed for delay in processing Afzal's mercy petition .Delhi's CM and the former President of India must be held accountable for misusing their discretionary powers.Let the Supreme court prescribe a specific time schedule for finalising the mercy petition so that it is not misused for cheap political ends by the ruling dispensation.

A K SAXENA  (A retired civil servant)

www.aksaxena.co.in

blog.aksaxena.co.in

 FWIW let me put in my two bits, not that anyone who holds a different opinion is likely to change his mind.

1. I am opposed to the death penalty. I believe it serves no purpose as a deterrence and is merely an act of retribution.
2. We can argue the merits or demerits of Afzal Guru's conviction till the cows come home. It serves no purpose. If everyone and his uncle is free to challenge the Supreme Court's decisions, then there will never ever be an end to the judicial process. The decisions of the Supreme Court are not final because the court is infallible. The court is infallible because its decisions are final (or at least they are supposed to be).
3. We also have a tendency often expressed in these forums to laud any judicial decision with which we are in agreement (Daniels come to judgement) and cast aspersions on judges if the decisions go against our wishes.
4. Was the execution of Afzal Guru a political decision? Of course it was. That doesn't mean it has to be condemned for that reason. All governments take decisions based on their appreciation of the political ramifications.
5. Was Guru executed on the altar of political expediency? I don't believe so. Those commentators who are gloating that the Congress has taken the wind out of the BJP's sails are in fact accusing the Congress of doing so.

 12 years too late, for the victims and for the nation.  Good riddance...

UPA in election mode is making BJP's job difficult now. UPA has a chance to bury BJP if they can now build Ram Mandir before 2014 election :-)) But there is possibility that third front may become powerful. And that is the last thing that India needs.

The terrorist who launched attacks on the Parliament deserved wat he has met in the end. There are few more who trial should be fast-tracked and justice done with promptitude. Terrorists have no religion and  should meet same fate as Afzal Guru.

Hope the trial in the pending cases would be expedited.

Ghai Sir

Noted your concern and points. I agree with you that fundametalism of any religion is bad. We have to stand against them. kerala is a case in point to worry. But rise of hindutvavadi is also a concern. Actually we should stand against all the regressive and fundamentalist forces instead of pointing out who is right and who is wrong.

     >> Now if I criticse these retrogative thugs then liberals like you call me Hindutavi.Minorities sadly sold their Votes dirt cheap .And inturn you have been voting worthless Sarkars for the past 67 yrs.

I will not call you hindutvavadi. You have every right to call a spade a spade.

Unfortunately we do not have any credible alternative. BJP is a waste opportunity so long as it is connected with parivar.

Ghai Sir

I think it should be ibteda and not itbeda

>> However I am raising some points not raised by Roy or addressed by Praveen Swamy

I have absolutely no interest in these.

I've always maintained that one is free to dislike or disagree with court judgements. At the end of the day, they have to be accepted.

I have not gone into the details of the case, nor do I plan to. He was found guilty at every stage of trial and appeal. Such bogus issues can be raised for virtually any case. How about the fact that "Hindutva terrorism" was uncovered by Karkare, who died under mysterious circumstances. Isn't that an exactly analogy to Sharma's case? Should we assume all Hindutva folks currently in prison (who unlike Guru incidentally, have not even been convicted yet), as innocent?

I do agree that he should have had representation of his choice. From what little I've read, only a partial attempt was made for the same. If true, that's a serious lapse. However, the courts had specifically ruled against these claims of his.

>> The only depressing part of this news is we will be now subjected to 10+ pages of drivel by Arundhati Roy.

www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/a-perfect-day-for-democracy/article4397705.ece

>>Unfortunately that does not seem to have happened in this case. He was not represented by a lawyer at trial stage and during appeal, courts rely on the arguments given in the trial court it seems

The canards of Aurandhati Roy in The Hindu are exposed in the following tweets

http://storify.com/Nivenomous/for-the-afzal-guru-did-not-get-a-fair-trial-crowd#publicize
 

Are you suggesting that others do?

You can go through the links that I have given if they do not get blocked.

I have no plans of going through the links you mentioned, even if they are available. My question was simple, and based on your rather pompous assertion

But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent

suggesting that others are.

>> Unfortunately that does not seem to have happened in this case. He was not represented by a lawyer at trial stage and during appeal, courts rely on the arguments given in the trial court it seems

This is what caused the delay in response. I did some research on it, and saw that there might be some truth in this.

To be fair, he was given legal aid. However, he claimed dissatisfaction with it. In my books, legal aid that is not of your choice, is inadequate. Per an article by Indira Jaisingh (I haven't found a refutation), two of the four names he suggested declined, but there is no evidence, that the other two were approached.

If so, it is certainly a miscarriage of justice. That said, he brought up this exact same point in his appeals in both high court and supreme court, and both denied his contention, saying that it was an afterthought, and that he had not expressed these reservations earlier.

From what I could find on the topic, there is at least some chance that he did not get legal aid of his choice. If that's indeed true, it's really really wrong, and as much as it sticks in my craw to say this, I have to agree with those who believe that the judgement may have been flawed.

Not saying that it was. Just that, I can't criticize the people saying these things, unless I can find something that suggests otherwise.

 Akshay,

I agree with you.

well, the Supreme Court had recognized that the evidence against Afzal was circumstantial and that the police had not followed legal procedures. However, the judgment stated that the the attack on the Indian Parliament had “shaken the entire nation, and the collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender.”

Afzal was hanged to satisfy the collective conscience of a society baying for the blood of anyone muslim/kashmiri.

...whatever happened to Modi after gujarat pogrom.

Akshay,

I agree with your kind words. 

Mud on parivars face which always maintained that UPA will not hang him. Kudos to UPA and Rule of law!

well, the Supreme Court had recognized that the evidence against Afzal was circumstantial and that the police had not followed legal procedures. However, the judgment stated that the the attack on the Indian Parliament had “shaken the entire nation, and the collective conscience of the society will only be satisfied if capital punishment is awarded to the offender.”

Afzal was hanged to satisfy the collective conscience of a society baying for the blood of anyone muslim/kashmiri.

...whatever happened to Modi after gujarat pogrom.

Kasab and Afzal got what they deserved, but poor BJP! It lost a couple of vote-getting slogans!

Akshay,

I agree with your kind words. 

 People will not like what I am saying. I feel there are things more important than upholding the rule of law, such as healing the wounds of alienated Indian citizens. There must have been a reason why the pro India politicians of that state were urging caution on this matter. We should have listened to them. The emotional integration of India is more important than even the implementation of the highest court's order. Sometimes benign inaction and not bowing to populist clamour serves the country better.

 #23,FedUp Indian,

I would have put it differently. I would have given more importance to truth, and sometimes there is miscarriage of justice. I am not sure we really have an understanding of how the parliament attack took place. I have a book "!3 Dec - A Reader  -- The Strange Case of the Attack on the Indian Parliament". It has several articles by people like Indira Jaisingh. I am giving link to a couple of the articles which have appeared elsewhere also 

However the links appear blocked. You can look at them later - Sonia Jabber - Hang the Truth - Hindustan Times 17th Oct 2006 

Another one is from Tehelka - blocked again but I got a copy from a blog -- www.indiaresists.com/afzal-guru-guilty-of-an-unsolved-crime/

As you know, recently there was an interesting news about the Samjhauta Express blast accused having fired at SAR Geelani who was an accused in Parliament Attack case, was sentenced to death and later acquitted.-- www.rediff.com/news/report/system-was-unhappy-with-my-acquittal-parl-attack-accused/20121227.htm 

Listen to all the stories that will come in the coming days with an open mind. I really feel sad,

Many of the opposition to Afzal Guru's execution came from people opposed to death sentence, people wanting peace in J&K , thereby conceding guilt of Afzal. But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent. If he were guilty, I have no regrets. Have a look at www.kashmirnewz.com/n00048.html

#31

If NDA had been in power instead of UPA, he would have been escorted to pak by a NDA minister.

Whatsinaname #44,

There is an article by Praveen Swamy www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-vanity-of-1312-truthtelling/article4400821.ece which clears some air over questions raised by Arundhati Roy. In  my view, with her hyperboles and ill researched contentions, Arundhati Roy is often a liability. However I am raising some points not raised by Roy or addressed by Praveen Swamy.

1. ACP Rajbir Singh and Inspector Mohan Chand Sharma of Special Cell, Delhi Police "cracked" the Parliament Attack case in two days. One of the accused SAR Geelani who was convicted by the trial court and sentenced to death, was later acquitted.

2. Both these Policemen were behind the infamous Ansal Plaza shootout in 2002 when a couple of businessmen were encountered and were sought to be passed off as LeT terrorists. Eye witness to the encounter,Dr.Hari Krishna was hounded

(3.Both these men their ends under controversial circumstances - One was shot dead by a property dealer and the other in murky Batla House encounter).

4 Later, an attempt was made on the life of Geelani. He was shot at outside his lawyer's house. Fingers were raised at Special Cell since only they had the neccessary technology to keep track of Geelani's movements (through phone tapping).

5.A couple of months earlier, there were reports of Samjhauta Express blast accused being behind the attack on Geelani. Here is a compilation of news reports that I had made at that time, sensing a rat fairy-tales-alive.blogspot.in/2012/12/new-twist-to-parliament-attack-case.html 

>> "I am sure law has been upheld, but am not sure justice has been done. Justice as in Truth and Justice." - Saroja

For the jokers of left liberatti, the quest for truth and justice is a never-ending pursuit. Their very livelihood, doles, seminars and foreign aids depend on this "pursuit". To be successful, this quest has to be eternal and unending. Hence, even if truth stared them in the face, these morons would look the other way.

 >> But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent.

Are you suggesting that others do?

You can go through the links that I have given if they do not get blocked. 

>> where defense had a chance to present its case.

Unfortunately that does not seem to have happened in this case. He was not represented by a lawyer at trial stage and during appeal, courts rely on the arguments given in the trial court it seems, Without any prejudice listen to what people will say in coming days, especially his co accused SAR Geelani who was acquitted because he had legal representation. 

Just because an article gets published in Tehelka does not make it Tehelka's view, Some months back I had heard Tehelka's Harinder Baweja speak against Afzal. 

I am hypocritic enough to want to believe that Afzal was guilty and was not framed.

I am sure law has been upheld, but am not sure justice has been done. Justice as in Truth and Justice.

Are you suggesting that others do?

You can go through the links that I have given if they do not get blocked.

I have no plans of going through the links you mentioned, even if they are available. My question was simple, and based on your rather pompous assertion

But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent

suggesting that others are.

>> Unfortunately that does not seem to have happened in this case. He was not represented by a lawyer at trial stage and during appeal, courts rely on the arguments given in the trial court it seems

This is what caused the delay in response. I did some research on it, and saw that there might be some truth in this.

To be fair, he was given legal aid. However, he claimed dissatisfaction with it. In my books, legal aid that is not of your choice, is inadequate. Per an article by Indira Jaisingh (I haven't found a refutation), two of the four names he suggested declined, but there is no evidence, that the other two were approached.

If so, it is certainly a miscarriage of justice. That said, he brought up this exact same point in his appeals in both high court and supreme court, and both denied his contention, saying that it was an afterthought, and that he had not expressed these reservations earlier.

From what I could find on the topic, there is at least some chance that he did not get legal aid of his choice. If that's indeed true, it's really really wrong, and as much as it sticks in my craw to say this, I have to agree with those who believe that the judgement may have been flawed.

Not saying that it was. Just that, I can't criticize the people saying these things, unless I can find something that suggests otherwise.

Outlook India : Parliament Attack Convict Afzal Guru Hanged
New Delhi | Feb 09, 2013
 

The Supreme court confirmed the death sentence in 2004.Execution was carried out in 2013. The GOI has much to explain.Can a chronological report be prepared and the responsibility fixed for delay in processing Afzal's mercy petition .Delhi's CM and the former President of India must be held accountable for misusing their discretionary powers.Let the Supreme court prescribe a specific time schedule for finalising the mercy petition so that it is not misused for cheap political ends by the ruling dispensation.

A K SAXENA  (A retired civil servant)

www.aksaxena.co.in

blog.aksaxena.co.in

Good Riddance !!

Maha,

>> The only depressing part of this news is we will be now subjected to 10+ pages of drivel by Arundhati Roy.

www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/a-perfect-day-for-democracy/article4397705.ece

>> But I do not feel happy about hanging of an innocent.

Are you suggesting that others do?

>> If he were guilty, I have no regrets.

How do we determine guilt or innocence? Tehelka or courts?

You are the one who makes a lot of song and dance about archeology reports being published in Manthan, and not peer reviewed journals. And now, you are suggesting that Tehelka opinions should be taken more seriously than court judgements (multiple levels), where defense had a chance to present its case.

Is there no end to your hypocrisy?

>> but poor BJP! It lost a couple of vote-getting slogans!

Teda-wari and Doggy Singh couldn't have put it better.

Good that fear of BJP is making even an anti-national party like Congress do the right thing.

This act of executing Afzal Guru is neither the logical conclusion of the Parliament attack trial nor a closure for the victims' families. It is just Sushil Shinde's ploy to win back some of the Hindu votes that the Congress thought it had lost with his moronic "Hindu/Saffron" terrorism comments.

UPA in election mode is making BJP's job difficult now. UPA has a chance to bury BJP if they can now build Ram Mandir before 2014 election :-)) But there is possibility that third front may become powerful. And that is the last thing that India needs.

Osama is eliminated by America in distant Pa