Javed Anand asks in "Asian Age", "Here’s a checklist: Foeticide, infanticide, higher infant mortality among girls, rampant discrimination against the girl child, dowry deaths, khap panchayats, “honour” killings. Which of these values, Bhagwat Ji, have we imported from the West?"

He adds, "Permit me to point out that your views are pretty close to many voices from the Muslim world: from the Taliban in Pakistan to the Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia. Perhaps it’s time votaries of Hindutva and champions of Islamic fundamentalism came together in a new coalition of the culturally constipated: “Us vs the West”."

 

Rape and murder is an ongoing activity in the Catholic church in Kerala,but none of the main line TV or print media has got the guts to bring it to the centre stage.It has taken sixteen long years to arrest the two priests who raped and brutally murdered the young nun Abhaya.The Catholic church is so powerful and intimidating that neither under the Congress rule nor under the Communist rule,the authorities dared investigate rape cases inside the fortified seminaries.Even the Pope had to apologise for the rampant child abuse in the Catholic church in the US,but here in India ruled aby an all powerful Catholic woman government authorities dare not take action against the involved Catholic priests.So,however stringent laws laws may be enacted after the Delhi rape tragedy,Catholic priests may still enjoy certain minority rights.

Bhagwat's mindset (and that of other leaders making these outrageous comments) is the same as that of the rapists.  India may be a banana republic but at least you need some modicum of civilization in order to produce and export bananas. Bharat on the other hand seems like kind of barbarian and Talibanesque stone age country where women are systematically beaten and kept in their place by misogynist and chauvinist bigots like Mr Bhagwat and his ilk, treated like animals, forced into child marriage, raped if they step out of line to put them in their place, and murdered if they dare to marry the person of their choice .  Unfortunately the majority of the Indian population (as well as many contributors to this board) seem to share this mentality and no doubt would feel some sympathy for the Delhi rapists' taunting the girl about being out at 8.30 in the evening.  And it's not just the men, even 52% of women seem to think that it's OK for their husbands to beat them.  But these will be Bharatiya women, not Indian ones.  Leaders who subscribe to these kind of views and expect to rule over a modern constitutional democracy are subversive. And anybody on here who disagrees should not be reading English language publications like Outlook since they obviously consider it the language of the devil. Better to stick to Saamana.

 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/25-years-court-data-proves-RSS-chief-wrong-75-of-rape-convicts-from-Bharat/articleshow/17895592.cms

Now there is a hard data! And this Bhagwat dude is wearing one obscene pair of chaddis - look at his sexy legs - if the cougars of ''India" were to sexually attack him I wouldnt blame them!

I think Bhagwat and Owaisi and all the other christian / jewish / rastafarian / whateverother crazy wingnuts should go jump off a really tall cliff...the ones that can kill or at least seriously maim.  Won't be surprised if their lot wish the same on my lot.

...and...the great thing about a free society is that Bhagwat & Owaisi and Company can spout their nonsense, other folks can put together data to disprove them, I can call them (Bhagwat and Owaisi I mean) jerks and you can call me that for calling them so..and so it goes!

>>I live in a western country. I have heard about rapes on women here but the 'Gang' rapes? Almost never happens. -P.B.Joshipura

Have a look at a recent cases --www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/09/rape_charges_divide_football_t.html

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/sexual-violence-is-not-a-cultural-phenomenon-in-india--it-is-endemic-everywhere-8433445.html

Mr. Joshipura .... what you see if more likely because violence in developed countries, especially USA is very individualistic whreas violence in 3rd world countries, especially India is "collective".

US has Gun policy, that anyone can possess gun an use it even for overtaking car people take out GUN and threaten so just imagine if someone tries to Gang Rape what would be the condition of those Rapists?

Womens in US especillay try to keep themselves very secure even when they are alone and if you have been to US you yourself can see that maximun SUV's heavy duty vehicle are driven by womens and not mens. Even with there costumes also you can sense that they are all time ready to defend them, in very hot temperatuer they would like to prefer Gum boot above there jeans, skirts or any kind of dress imagine if someone tries to rape any of this womens what will they get first? Hard Kick  at their raping tool....will he dare to take next step....If so...Then he has to cry life long...

I don't understand why there is so much hue and cry against this statement from Mr. Mohan Bhagwat.

What he said is true. Just find out which place is the "Rape Capital" of India and whether this place is a big city or a small village? If the rape cases from rural india are not reported by the media, then it is not Mohan Bhagwat's fault. Based on the media reports, it seems majority of such incidents happen in big cities like Delhi, Mumbai, Pune etc. and hence his statement is not incorrect.

 Mr. Joshipura .... what you see if more likely because violence in developed countries, especially USA is very individualistic whreas violence in 3rd world countries, especially India is "collective".

 When Clown Prince, PM-in-waiting, talks about 2 Indias, India and Bharat, it is a revelation to all especially media and Digvijay, but if anyone of RSS/BJP says the same thing, it is rediculed!

And what happened to freedom of speech which is allowed for Hindu bashers like Owasi and terrorist supporters and Kashmiri sedition supporters like Arundhati Roy?

The great Arnab Goswami and other channels NEVER SHOEW those speeches against Hindus but will keep repeating a few phrases from Bhagwat or Tagodia. Hypocrites.

Of course no one can match Sonia's dirty tricks department head Digvijay Singh's hypocrisy - just listen to what he says for Bhagwat and Owasi.

Sanket >>Indra reached the Ashram of Gautama when the sage was away. He had adopted the guise of Gautama. But Ahalya, Gautama's beautiful wife knew that in stranger was not Gautama. But she did not drive him away. Indra had sex with the rishi's wife. Devaraj Indra thus was the rapist of Gautama's wife in the Satya Yug.

There are ways and ways of interpreting a mythic story which make it come alive. Leaving aside the last line of your quote above, (which I think is your interpretation), my 21st century interpretation will be as follows --  

Are there not times when you have done something out of your character (say a soft spoken person shouting down someone or a ruthless no nonsense person suddenly going out of the way to be kind to some one etc), when you were "someone else" for a short time ....

Now consider the story of Ahalya with Indra no more than a metaphor for power and pomp.

A sagely Gautama living with his wife Ahalya suddenly takes on a regal air, and becomes enamoured by pomp. His wife instead of rejecting this "fake" Gautama , responds to this "fake" and enjoys his company. Gautama comes to his senses and is angry with Ahalya for betraying his true self. Ahalya is remorseful and turns to a unfeeling stone. I cannot comment more than this, but may be someone more erudite like D.L.Narayan can throw light on it,

There are other ways of looking at Ahalya story eg feminist perspectives - Have a look at - www.manushi-india.org/pdfs_issues/PDF%20files%20103/3.%20Subversion%20from%20Within.pdf

There is a Tamil story by Pudumai Pittan "Saba Vimochanam" where Ahalya after regaining her human form , sends an invitation to the Rama ana Sita to spend some time at her hermitage. While conversing with Sita she comes to know of the agni pariksha and is shocked. After a long refllection, she decides to remain a stone, unwilling to be redeemed by someone as unworthy as Ram,

--------------------------------

Even you are interpreting the mythology to project a debauched image of the past. It would have been a valid interpretation if there was "puritanism" in Ahalya's story. Later versions did shift the blame entirely to Indra and hence sanitise the tale. I think the earlier version is a rich tale and as DL Narayan has pointed out, there is no condemnation of Ahalya ever by anyone except by her husband and herself. 

     -------------------------

There are lot of things rotten with Indian society, but why throw out or debase mythology? There is no single version of any tale and different people have had different ways of telling them.More important, they may have many prejudices, but they are free of our contemporary prejudices that we are unaware of....

I live in a western country.  I have heard about rapes on women here but the 'Gang' rapes?  Almost never happens.  There should be a different category of punishment for gang rape. 

"It is better to let others think that you are stupid than open your mouth and prove it" - This is an old english saying which all the 'Bhartiya Mahanubhavs' should learn by heart.

 Indra reached  the Ashram of  Gautama when the sage was away. He had adopted the guise of Gautama. But Ahalya, Gautama's beautiful wife knew that in stranger was not Gautama. But she did not drive him away. Indra had sex with the rishi's wife. Devaraj Indra thus was the rapist  of Gautama's wife in the Satya Yug. I'm sure Mohan Bhagwat is not unaware of it. 

Kautily's Arthashastra prescribes 24 panas punishment for "sex with the images of goddesses." Wasn't it rape? That too goddesses' mages! 

By the way, who were the rapists of the lifeless images in the golden era of Hindu kingdom?

RSS Chief should know it.  

 The tragedy is totally brainless people live in both India and Bharat.

What an idiot comment !

you got only 1 case from Bharat what about others please google it out...For us

JAYKUMAR, AHMEDABAD

From Maharashtra, the Mathura rape case of 1970s. Google it yourself and more recently the Kheirlanji massacre where 4 members of a dalit family were hacked to death after they were stripped naked and the two women were gang raped. You can google that too. 

Please check your Passport what is writen?

JAYKUMAR, AHMEDABAD

 Bharat Ganarajya/ Republicof India  . I have no problems with multiple identities/names . So I use Mumbai/Bambai/Bombay or Madras/Chennai . In Tamil it is India most of the time and occasionally Bharatam. I have never understood super patriots who want only one name. 

 We are all Indians. We are all citizens of India >>>>> really!  Where were you all bleeding hearts when Owasi was making anti national and anti-Hindu statements.

I forgot, you dare take on only an 80 year old man because he belongs to RSS! 

Who the hell is this Mohan Bhagwat? Has he done a single day's honest work in his life?

RSS has done far better job in rural areas than Manushi and Teesta Groups atleast they don't do copy paste work like you...

you got only 1 case from Bharat what about others please google it out...For us

What a jerk you are, Bhagwat! What about all the cases that get reported from rural India where women get raped and/or paraded naked - in many instances atrocities perpetrated by so-called "higher" caste folks upon women from so-called "lower" castes?

It is not Bhagwat's problem and it is so called highly intellectual media's problem that they ignore small towns and villages to bring forward there issues before nation.

Very few cases have so called come before us but why rest is left out?

Change the name to Bharat (eg Changing name to Mumbai, all association to carnage in 1992/3 was wiped out).

No need to change as it is already name of our country..Please check your Passport what is writen?

Wow his half pant looks great !

Bhanwari Devi was from Bharat or India?   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhanwari_Devi  She was gang raped for her activism against child marriage in Rajasthan. From wiki --

Bhanwari was accused of fabricating the entire incident by the alleged rapists and their supporters, and faced public humiliation in her village. She refused monetary compensation to avoid allegations that she had cooked up the rape story to get money.

In 1994, Bhanwari Devi was offered compensation by the accused to withdraw the court case against them. She refused, and instead asked them to restore her dignity by accepting that they had raped her. Bhanwari's brothers wanted her to accept the compensation, and broke all ties with her when she refused to do so. Sometime later, her elder son, daughter-in-law and her in-laws followed suit.
During the course of the case, five judges were changed, and the sixth judge ruled that the accused were not guilty, in November 1995. The district sessions judge pronounced that upper-caste men could not have raped a Dalit. The rapists included an uncle-nephew pair, and the judge insisted that a man could not possibly have participated in a gang-rape in the presence of his nephew. He also said that since the medical examination happened 52 hours after the alleged rape, Devi could be lying. He also said that Bhanwari's husband couldn't have passively watched his wife being gang-raped.
A state MLA organised a victory rally in the state capital Jaipur for the five accused declared not guilty, and the women's wing of his political party attended the rally to call Bhanwari a liar. The State Government decided to appeal against the judgment. The judgement led to a nationwide campaign for justice for Bhanwari Devi. However, by 2007, 15 years after the incident, the Rajasthan High Court held only one hearing on the case and two of the accused were dead.

Bhanwari Devi and her family were ostracized by the villagers, majority of whom belonged to the 'upper' castes. Her son Mukesh (who was barely four years old when she was raped) had been beaten up by local Gurjar boys when he went to a college in Dausa. He had a difficult time finding a family willing to marry their daughter to him. Bhanwari Devi's own caste ostracized her as they believed that she had been "polluted" by rape. Bhanwari Devi accepted Rs. 25,000 from the Prime Minister Narasimha Rao, but her brother spent the entire amount in organizing a Kumhar caste panchayat, where people were asked to accept her back into the community.
In 2001, Jag Mundhra made a film Bawandar on Bhanwari Devi's story, which renewed public interest in the case. The New Indian Express journalist Sukhmani Singh tracked her down, and reported: "Feisty, outspoken, innately hospitable, she openly expressed her resentment against both the women's groups and the government, all of whom have been fiercely guarding her like their pet mannequin all these many years." He reported that she was "weary, resigned and bitter" after all these years. According to him, a small-time political worker and businessman describing Bhanwari as a "rakhi sister" had brokered a deal with Mundhra for the film.He also reported that Bhanwari wanted to leave Bhateri, but couldn't afford to do so. Her sole source of income was a buffalo, as her two bighas of land had become unproductive due to three years of drought. Most of the money that she received as part of the Neerja Bhanot Memorial Award in 1994 was locked away in a trust to aid women.

Bhanwari Devi risked her life amidst threats from the conservative villagers, and showed courage in seeking justice in spite of social boycott. It was for the first time in the conservative region that a woman was not ashamed of rape and spoke openly about it. Bhanwari Devi's case shaped the women's movement in Rajasthan, and emboldened other rape victims to come forward and lodge complains against their rapists.
Bhanwari Devi had attracted the ire of her rapists solely on the basis of her work. This prompted several women's groups to file a Public Interest Litigation (PIL) in the Supreme Court of India, under the collective platform of Vishaka. The petition, filed by Vishaka and four other women's organizations in Rajasthan against the State of Rajasthan and the Union of India, resulted in what are popularly known as the Vishaka Guidelines. The judgment of August 1997 provided the basic definitions of sexual harassment at the workplace and provided guidelines to deal with it. It is seen as a significant victory for Bhanwari Devi's fight for justice.
By 2007, the average age of the first-time mother in Rajasthan had gone up to 16.5 years. According to Shivam Vij, this change was brought about by the efforts of women's groups, catalyzed by the Bhanwari Devi case.

-------------------------------------------------------

Is it in Bharat or India that judges rule that upper caste men could not have raped a lower caste woman? Is it in India or Bharat that the accused were acquitted on the basis of such a logic? Is it in India or Bharat that an MLA can celebrate such an acquittal and the women/s wing of the party can have a rally calling Bhanwari Devi a liar? And now they are calling for a Ashok Chakra for a woman who died? Bharat or India?

And a real India that is Bharat has many many unsung heroines and heroes. Yet we are stuck with a media that keeps projecting morally bankrupt pigheads. Who the hell is this Mohan Bhagwat? Has he done a single day's honest work in his life? 

Mr. Aiyer writes .... "Ashoka dismantled 'Aryavarta' (including military treaties and capabilities, educational system and legal system, which, in turn, ossified the caste system) and laid India open to every armed adventurer."

I agree that ossification of caste led to us being over run by invaders after invaders. I personally think ossification of caste is inherent in the construct of caste, i.e., an intrinsic property of caste - a system fine for machines/robots (where every cog has a purpose and serves that purpose well) but not humans. I have never thought or heard of it being blamed on Ashoka (or that he dismantled things that led to the ossification of caste), traditionally considered as one of the greatest emporers the world has seen. Please enlighten me and may be many others like me.

Anyways, one thing for sure .... we are most likely hosed. On one side we are westernizing in form (and think we are modernizing) - so not a path of renaissance leading to real modernization. On the other side are the "back to a golden past brigade when all was right, we were a land of milk and honey, etc. etc." (the Hindutva brigade led by RSS for the Hindus, or the assorted Islamist brigades for the Muslims), also not a path of renaissance leading to modernization. Will democracy, urbanization and industralization still deliver an Indian renaissance and hence modernization with a desi twist to it? The billion (may be trillion) $$ question.

Looks like Bhagwat is exposed to too much of MSM, which reports 2 rapes a day in Delhi (under the column Today's Rapes), 2 more per day in NCR, 3 cases in other metros and about 5 in smaller towns. And he comes to the obvious conclusion.

90% Indians are idiots....so nothing surprising to come across people like Mohan Bhagwat.
 

Thank you Mr. Katju for teaching me this golden thumb rule.

What a jerk you are, Bhagwat! What about all the cases that get reported from rural India where women get  raped and/or paraded naked - in many instances atrocities perpetrated by so-called "higher" caste folks upon women from so-called "lower" castes? Bhagwat, dont you have a view on the Chowmein theory?

Mr. Bhagwat is wrong. Rapes are as common in villages as they are in the cities. It is mischievous to call villages Bharat and cities India. All that these Sanghis know is how to create divisions between Indians.

 Rapes happen in India not in Bharat. Scams after mega scams happen in India not Bharat. Change the name to Bharat (eg Changing name to Mumbai, all association to carnage in 1992/3 was wiped out).

Call MMS Arvind Kejriwal and corruption will be a thing of past. 

I am aware of the implication that all ills are because of westernization especially ills like rape. Btw, why was Dhritarashtra born blind?

 Values of "Bharath" are "myths" since Ashoka dismantled 'Aryavarta' (including military treaties and capabilities, educational system and legal system, which, in turn, ossified the caste system) and laid India open to every armed adventurer. This was followed by a long "dark age" when rape and loot was considered perfectly normal by the invading rulers who saw the population as not human by theocratic definition. The sepoy mutiny begat the British Crown which established "Rule of Law" and dismantled several uncivilized practices such as cannibalism, thuggee, kallar, human sacrifice, suttee and so on. The good bequeathed by the Crown has been dismantled since 65 yrs to make the successors "look" better in a "four legs good two legs bad" Animal Farm format. Today the Khap has filled the void created by the eradication of law by India's ruling (looting) elites over the last sixty five years. Unreported rape cases are very high in rural India where the rolling back of rule of law commenced after Independence.

Mr. Bhagwat is wrong. Rapes are as common in villages as they are in the cities. It is mischievous to call villages Bharat and cities India. All that these Sanghis know is how to create divisions between Indians.

 Rapes happen in India not in Bharat. Scams after mega scams happen in India not Bharat. Change the name to Bharat (eg Changing name to Mumbai, all association to carnage in 1992/3 was wiped out).

Call MMS Arvind Kejriwal and corruption will be a thing of past. 

I am aware of the implication that all ills are because of westernization especially ills like rape. Btw, why was Dhritarashtra born blind?

I don't understand why there is so much hue and cry against this statement from Mr. Mohan Bhagwat.

What he said is true. Just find out which place is the "Rape Capital" of India and whether this place is a big city or a small village? If the rape cases from rural india are not reported by the media, then it is not Mohan Bhagwat's fault. Based on the media reports, it seems majority of such incidents happen in big cities like Delhi, Mumbai, Pune etc. and hence his statement is not incorrect.

 When Clown Prince, PM-in-waiting, talks about 2 Indias, India and Bharat, it is a revelation to all especially media and Digvijay, but if anyone of RSS/BJP says the same thing, it is rediculed!

And what happened to freedom of speech which is allowed for Hindu bashers like Owasi and terrorist supporters and Kashmiri sedition supporters like Arundhati Roy?

The great Arnab Goswami and other channels NEVER SHOEW those speeches against Hindus but will keep repeating a few phrases from Bhagwat or Tagodia. Hypocrites.

Of course no one can match Sonia's dirty tricks department head Digvijay Singh's hypocrisy - just listen to what he says for Bhagwat and Owasi.

 We are all Indians. We are all citizens of India >>>>> really!  Where were you all bleeding hearts when Owasi was making anti national and anti-Hindu statements.

I forgot, you dare take on only an 80 year old man because he belongs to RSS! 

Bhanwari Devi was from Bharat or India?   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhanwari_Devi  She was gang raped for her activism against child marriage in Rajasthan. From wiki --

Bhanwari was accused of fabricating the entire incident by the alleged rapists and their supporters, and faced public humiliation in her village. She refused monetary compensation to avoid allegations that she had cooked up the rape story to get money.

In 1994, Bhanwari Devi was offered compensation by the accused to withdraw the court case against them. She refused, and instead asked them to restore her dignity by accepting that they had raped her. Bhanwari's brothers wanted her to accept the compensation, and broke all ties with her when she refused to do so. Sometime later, her elder son, daughter-in-law and her in-laws followed suit.
During the course of the case, five judges were changed, and the sixth judge ruled that the accused were not guilty, in November 1995. The district sessions judge pronounced that upper-caste men could not have raped a Dalit. The rapists included an uncle-nephew pair, and the judge insisted that a man could not possibly have participated in a gang-rape in the presence of his nephew. He also said that since the medical examination happened 52 hours after the alleged rape, Devi could be lying. He also said that Bhanwari's husband couldn't have passively watched his wife being gang-raped.
A state MLA organised a victory rally in the state capital Jaipur for the five accused declared not guilty, and the women's wing of his political party attended the rally to call Bhanwari a liar. The State Government decided to appeal against the judgment. The judgement led to a nationwide campaign for justice for Bhanwari Devi. However, by 2007, 15 years after the incident, the Rajasthan High Court held only one hearing on the case and two of the accused were dead.

Bhanwari Devi and her family were ostracized by the villagers, majority of whom belonged to the 'upper' castes. Her son Mukesh (who was barely four years old when she was raped) had been beaten up by local Gurjar boys when he went to a college in Dausa. He had a difficult time finding a family willing to marry their daughter to him. Bhanwari Devi's own caste ostracized her as they believed that she had been "polluted" by rape. Bhanwari Devi accepted Rs. 25,000 from the Prime Minister Narasimha Rao, but her brother spent the entire amount in organizing a Kumhar caste panchayat, where people were asked to accept her back into the community.
In 2001, Jag Mundhra made a film Bawandar on Bhanwari Devi's story, which renewed public interest in the case. The New Indian Express journalist Sukhmani Singh tracked her down, and reported: "Feisty, outspoken, innately hospitable, she openly expressed her resentment against both the women's groups and the government, all of whom have been fiercely guarding her like their pet mannequin all these many years." He reported that she was "weary, resigned and bitter" after all these years. According to him, a small-time political worker and businessman describing Bhanwari as a "rakhi sister" had brokered a deal with Mundhra for the film.He also reported that Bhanwari wanted to leave Bhateri, but couldn't afford to do so. Her sole source of income was a buffalo, as her two bighas of land had become unproductive due to three years of drought. Most of the money that she received as part of the Neerja Bhanot Memorial Award in 1994 was locked away in a trust to aid women.

Bhanwari Devi risked her life amidst threats from the conservative villagers, and showed courage in seeking justice in spite of social boycott. It was for the first time in the conservative region that a woman was not ashamed of rape and spoke openly about it. Bhanwari Devi's case shaped the women's movement in Rajasthan, and emboldened other rape victims to come forward and lodge complains against their rapists.
Bhanwari Devi had attracted the ire of her rapists solely on the basis of her work. This prompted several women's groups to file a Public Interest Litigation (PIL) in the Supreme Court of India, under the collective platform of Vishaka. The petition, filed by Vishaka and four other women's organizations in Rajasthan against the State of Rajasthan and the Union of India, resulted in what are popularly known as the Vishaka Guidelines. The judgment of August 1997 provided the basic definitions of sexual harassment at the workplace and provided guidelines to deal with it. It is seen as a significant victory for Bhanwari Devi's fight for justice.
By 2007, the average age of the first-time mother in Rajasthan had gone up to 16.5 years. According to Shivam Vij, this change was brought about by the efforts of women's groups, catalyzed by the Bhanwari Devi case.

-------------------------------------------------------

Is it in Bharat or India that judges rule that upper caste men could not have raped a lower caste woman? Is it in India or Bharat that the accused were acquitted on the basis of such a logic? Is it in India or Bharat that an MLA can celebrate such an acquittal and the women/s wing of the party can have a rally calling Bhanwari Devi a liar? And now they are calling for a Ashok Chakra for a woman who died? Bharat or India?

And a real India that is Bharat has many many unsung heroines and heroes. Yet we are stuck with a media that keeps projecting morally bankrupt pigheads. Who the hell is this Mohan Bhagwat? Has he done a single day's honest work in his life? 

Rape and murder is an ongoing activity in the Catholic church in Kerala,but none of the main line TV or print media has got the guts to bring it to the centre stage.It has taken sixteen long years to arrest the two priests who raped and brutally murdered the young nun Abhaya.The Catholic church is so powerful and intimidating that neither under the Congress rule nor under the Communist rule,the authorities dared investigate rape cases inside the fortified seminaries.Even the Pope had to apologise for the rampant child abuse in the Catholic church in the US,but here in India ruled aby an all powerful Catholic woman government authorities dare not take action against the involved Catholic priests.So,however stringent laws laws may be enacted after the Delhi rape tragedy,Catholic priests may still enjoy certain minority rights.

Bhagwat's mindset (and that of other leaders making these outrageous comments) is the same as that of the rapists.  India may be a banana republic but at least you need some modicum of civilization in order to produce and export bananas. Bharat on the other hand seems like kind of barbarian and Talibanesque stone age country where women are systematically beaten and kept in their place by misogynist and chauvinist bigots like Mr Bhagwat and his ilk, treated like animals, forced into child marriage, raped if they step out of line to put them in their place, and murdered if they dare to marry the person of their choice .  Unfortunately the majority of the Indian population (as well as many contributors to this board) seem to share this mentality and no doubt would feel some sympathy for the Delhi rapists' taunting the girl about being out at 8.30 in the evening.  And it's not just the men, even 52% of women seem to think that it's OK for their husbands to beat them.  But these will be Bharatiya women, not Indian ones.  Leaders who subscribe to these kind of views and expect to rule over a modern constitutional democracy are subversive. And anybody on here who disagrees should not be reading English language publications like Outlook since they obviously consider it the language of the devil. Better to stick to Saamana.

 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/25-years-court-data-proves-RSS-chief-wrong-75-of-rape-convicts-from-Bharat/articleshow/17895592.cms

Now there is a hard data! And this Bhagwat dude is wearing one obscene pair of chaddis - look at his sexy legs - if the cougars of ''India" were to sexually attack him I wouldnt blame them!

I think Bhagwat and Owaisi and all the other christian / jewish / rastafarian / whateverother crazy wingnuts should go jump off a really tall cliff...the ones that can kill or at least seriously maim.  Won't be surprised if their lot wish the same on my lot.

...and...the great thing about a free society is that Bhagwat & Owaisi and Company can spout their nonsense, other folks can put together data to disprove them, I can call them (Bhagwat and Owaisi I mean) jerks and you can call me that for calling them so..and so it goes!

>>I live in a western country. I have heard about rapes on women here but the 'Gang' rapes? Almost never happens. -P.B.Joshipura

Have a look at a recent cases --www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/09/rape_charges_divide_football_t.html

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/sexual-violence-is-not-a-cultural-phenomenon-in-india--it-is-endemic-everywhere-8433445.html

I live in a western country.  I have heard about rapes on women here but the 'Gang' rapes?  Almost never happens.  There should be a different category of punishment for gang rape. 

"It is better to let others think that you are stupid than open your mouth and prove it" - This is an old english saying which all the 'Bhartiya Mahanubhavs' should learn by heart.

 Indra reached  the Ashram of  Gautama when the sage was away. He had adopted the guise of Gautama. But Ahalya, Gautama's beautiful wife knew that in stranger was not Gautama. But she did not drive him away. Indra had sex with the rishi's wife. Devaraj Indra thus was the rapist  of Gautama's wife in the Satya Yug. I'm sure Mohan Bhagwat is not unaware of it. 

Kautily's Arthashastra prescribes 24 panas punishment for "sex with the images of goddesses." Wasn't it rape? That too goddesses' mages! 

By the way, who were the rapists of the lifeless images in the golden era of Hindu kingdom?

RSS Chief should know it.  

Mr. Aiyer writes .... "Ashoka dismantled 'Aryavarta' (including military treaties and capabilities, educational system and legal system, which, in turn, ossified the caste system) and laid India open to every armed adventurer."

I agree that ossification of caste led to us being over run by invaders after invaders. I personally think ossification of caste is inherent in the construct of caste, i.e., an intrinsic property of caste - a system fine for machines/robots (where every cog has a purpose and serves that purpose well) but not humans. I have never thought or heard of it being blamed on Ashoka (or that he dismantled things that led to the ossification of caste), traditionally considered as one of the greatest emporers the world has seen. Please enlighten me and may be many others like me.

Anyways, one thing for sure .... we are most likely hosed. On one side we are westernizing in form (and think we are modernizing) - so not a path of renaissance leading to real modernization. On the other side are the "back to a golden past brigade when all was right, we were a land of milk and honey, etc. etc." (the Hindutva brigade led by RSS for the Hindus, or the assorted Islamist brigades for the Muslims), also not a path of renaissance leading to modernization. Will democracy, urbanization and industralization still deliver an Indian renaissance and hence modernization with a desi twist to it? The billion (may be trillion) $$ question.

Looks like Bhagwat is exposed to too much of MSM, which reports 2 rapes a day in Delhi (under the column Today's Rapes), 2 more per day in NCR, 3 cases in other metros and about 5 in smaller towns. And he comes to the obvious conclusion.

90% Indians are idiots....so nothing surprising to come across people like Mohan Bhagwat.
 

Thank you Mr. Katju for teaching me this golden thumb rule.

What a jerk you are, Bhagwat! What about all the cases that get reported from rural India where women get  raped and/or paraded naked - in many instances atrocities perpetrated by so-called "higher" caste folks upon women from so-called "lower" castes? Bhagwat, dont you have a view on the Chowmein theory?

 Values of "Bharath" are "myths" since Ashoka dismantled 'Aryavarta' (including military treaties and capabilities, educational system and legal system, which, in turn, ossified the caste system) and laid India open to every armed adventurer. This was followed by a long "dark age" when rape and loot was considered perfectly normal by the invading rulers who saw the population as not human by theocratic definition. The sepoy mutiny begat the British Crown which established "Rule of Law" and dismantled several uncivilized practices such as cannibalism, thuggee, kallar, human sacrifice, suttee and so on. The good bequeathed by the Crown has been dismantled since 65 yrs to make the successors "look" better in a "four legs good two legs bad" Animal Farm format. Today the Khap has filled the void created by the eradication of law by India's ruling (looting) elites over the last sixty five years. Unreported rape cases are very high in rural India where the rolling back of rule of law commenced after Independence.

 The tragedy is totally brainless people live in both India and Bharat.

What an idiot comment !

you got only 1 case from Bharat what about others please google it out...For us

JAYKUMAR, AHMEDABAD

From Maharashtra, the Mathura rape case of 1970s. Google it yourself and more recently the Kheirlanji massacre where 4 members of a dalit family were hacked to death after they were stripped naked and the two women were gang raped. You can google that too. 

Please check your Passport what is writen?

JAYKUMAR, AHMEDABAD

 Bharat Ganarajya/ Republicof India  . I have no problems with multiple identities/names . So I use Mumbai/Bambai/Bombay or Madras/Chennai . In Tamil it is India most of the time and occasionally Bharatam. I have never understood super patriots who want only one name. 

Who the hell is this Mohan Bhagwat? Has he done a single day's honest work in his life?

RSS has done far better job in rural areas than Manushi and Teesta Groups atleast they don't do copy paste work like you...

you got only 1 case from Bharat what about others please google it out...For us

Change the name to Bharat (eg Changing name to Mumbai, all association to carnage in 1992/3 was wiped out).

No need to change as it is already name of our country..Please check your Passport what is writen?

Wow his half pant looks great !

 Mr. Joshipura .... what you see if more likely because violence in developed countries, especially USA is very individualistic whreas violence in 3rd world countries, especially India is "collective".

Sanket >>Indra reached the Ashram of Gautama when the sage was away. He had adopted the guise of Gautama. But Ahalya, Gautama's beautiful wife knew that in stranger was not Gautama. But she did not drive him away. Indra had sex with the rishi's wife. Devaraj Indra thus was the rapist of Gautama's wife in the Satya Yug.

There are ways and ways of interpreting a mythic story which make it come alive. Leaving aside the last line of your quote above, (which I think is your interpretation), my 21st century interpretation will be as follows --  

Are there not times when you have done something out of your character (say a soft spoken person shouting down someone or a ruthless no nonsense person suddenly going out of the way to be kind to some one etc), when you were "someone else" for a short time ....

Now consider the story of Ahalya with Indra no more than a metaphor for power and pomp.

A sagely Gautama living with his wife Ahalya suddenly takes on a regal air, and becomes enamoured by pomp. His wife instead of rejecting this "fake" Gautama , responds to this "fake" and enjoys his company. Gautama comes to his senses and is angry with Ahalya for betraying his true self. Ahalya is remorseful and turns to a unfeeling stone. I cannot comment more than this, but may be someone more erudite like D.L.Narayan can throw light on it,

There are other ways of looking at Ahalya story eg feminist perspectives - Have a look at - www.manushi-india.org/pdfs_issues/PDF%20files%20103/3.%20Subversion%20from%20Within.pdf

There is a Tamil story by Pudumai Pittan "Saba Vimochanam" where Ahalya after regaining her human form , sends an invitation to the Rama ana Sita to spend some time at her hermitage. While conversing with Sita she comes to know of the agni pariksha and is shocked. After a long refllection, she decides to remain a stone, unwilling to be redeemed by someone as unworthy as Ram,

--------------------------------

Even you are interpreting the mythology to project a debauched image of the past. It would have been a valid interpretation if there was "puritanism" in Ahalya's story. Later versions did shift the blame entirely to Indra and hence sanitise the tale. I think the earlier version is a rich tale and as DL Narayan has pointed out, there is no condemnation of Ahalya ever by anyone except by her husband and herself. 

     -------------------------

There are lot of things rotten with Indian society, but why throw out or debase mythology? There is no single version of any tale and different people have had different ways of telling them.More important, they may have many prejudices, but they are free of our contemporary prejudices that we are unaware of....

What a jerk you are, Bhagwat! What about all the cases that get reported from rural India where women get raped and/or paraded naked - in many instances atrocities perpetrated by so-called "higher" caste folks upon women from so-called "lower" castes?

It is not Bhagwat's problem and it is so called highly intellectual media's problem that they ignore small towns and villages to bring forward there issues before nation.

Very few cases have so called come before us but why rest is left out?

Mr. Bhagwat is wrong. Rapes are as common in villages as they are in the cities. It is mischievous to call villages Bharat and cities India. All that these Sanghis know is how to create divisions between Indians.

 Rapes happen in India not in Bharat. Scams after mega scams happen in India not Bharat. Change the name to Bharat (eg Changing name to Mumbai, all association to carnage in 1992/3 was wiped out).

Call MMS Arvind Kejriwal and corruption will be a thing of past. 

I am aware of the implication that all ills are because of westernization especially ills like rape. Btw, why was Dhritarashtra born blind?

 We are all Indians. We are all citizens of India >>>>> really!  Where were you all bleeding hearts when Owasi was making anti national and anti-Hindu statements.

I forgot, you dare take on only an 80 year old man because he belongs to RSS! 

Who the hell is this Mohan Bhagwat? Has he done a single day's honest work in his life?

RSS has done far better job in rural areas than Manushi and Teesta Groups atleast they don't do copy paste work like you...

you got only 1 case from Bharat what about others please google it out...For us

90% Indians are idiots....so nothing surprising to come across people like Mohan Bhagwat.
 

Thank you Mr. Katju for teaching me this golden thumb rule.

What a jerk you are, Bhagwat! What about all the cases that get reported from rural India where women get  raped and/or paraded naked - in many instances atrocities perpetrated by so-called "higher" caste folks upon women from so-called "lower" castes? Bhagwat, dont you have a view on the Chowmein theory?

I don't understand why there is so much hue and cry against this statement from Mr. Mohan Bhagwat.

What he said is true. Just find out which place is the "Rape Capital" of India and whether this place is a big city or a small village? If the rape cases from rural india are not reported by the media, then it is not Mohan Bhagwat's fault. Based on the media reports, it seems majority of such incidents happen in big cities like Delhi, Mumbai, Pune etc. and hence his statement is not incorrect.

 When Clown Prince, PM-in-waiting, talks about 2 Indias, India and Bharat, it is a revelation to all especially media and Digvijay, but if anyone of RSS/BJP says the same thing, it is rediculed!

And what happened to freedom of speech which is allowed for Hindu bashers like Owasi and terrorist supporters and Kashmiri sedition supporters like Arundhati Roy?

The great Arnab Goswami and other channels NEVER SHOEW those speeches against Hindus but will keep repeating a few phrases from Bhagwat or Tagodia. Hypocrites.

Of course no one can match Sonia's dirty tricks department head Digvijay Singh's hypocrisy - just listen to what he says for Bhagwat and Owasi.

you got only 1 case from Bharat what about others please google it out...For us

JAYKUMAR, AHMEDABAD

From Maharashtra, the Mathura rape case of 1970s. Google it yourself and more recently the Kheirlanji massacre where 4 members of a dalit family were hacked to death after they were stripped naked and the two women were gang raped. You can google that too. 

Please check your Passport what is writen?

JAYKUMAR, AHMEDABAD

 Bharat Ganarajya/ Republicof India  . I have no problems with multiple identities/names . So I use Mumbai/Bambai/Bombay or Madras/Chennai . In Tamil it is India most of the time and occasionally Bharatam. I have never understood super patriots who want only one name. 

 Values of "Bharath" are "myths" since Ashoka dismantled 'Aryavarta' (including military treaties and capabilities, educational system and legal system, which, in turn, ossified the caste system) and laid India open to every armed adventurer. This was followed by a long "dark age" when rape and loot was considered perfectly normal by the invading rulers who saw the population as not human by theocratic definition. The sepoy mutiny begat the British Crown which established "Rule of Law" and dismantled several uncivilized practices such as cannibalism, thuggee, kallar, human sacrifice, suttee and so on. The good bequeathed by the Crown has been dismantled since 65 yrs to make the successors "look" better in a "four legs good two legs bad" Animal Farm format. Today the Khap has filled the void created by the eradication of law by India's ruling (looting) elites over the last sixty five years. Unreported rape cases are very high in rural India where the rolling back of rule of law commenced after Independence.

Sanket >>Indra reached the Ashram of Gautama when the sage was away. He had adopted the guise of Gautama. But Ahalya, Gautama's beautiful wife knew that in stranger was not Gautama. But she did not drive him away. Indra had sex with the rishi's wife. Devaraj Indra thus was the rapist of Gautama's wife in the Satya Yug.

There are ways and ways of interpreting a mythic story which make it come alive. Leaving aside the last line of your quote above, (which I think is your interpretation), my 21st century interpretation will be as follows --  

Are there not times when you have done something out of your character (say a soft spoken person shouting down someone or a ruthless no nonsense person suddenly going out of the way to be kind to some one etc), when you were "someone else" for a short time ....

Now consider the story of Ahalya with Indra no more than a metaphor for power and pomp.

A sagely Gautama living with his wife Ahalya suddenly takes on a regal air, and becomes enamoured by pomp. His wife instead of rejecting this "fake" Gautama , responds to this "fake" and enjoys his company. Gautama comes to his senses and is angry with Ahalya for betraying his true self. Ahalya is remorseful and turns to a unfeeling stone. I cannot comment more than this, but may be someone more erudite like D.L.Narayan can throw light on it,

There are other ways of looking at Ahalya story eg feminist perspectives - Have a look at - www.manushi-india.org/pdfs_issues/PDF%20files%20103/3.%20Subversion%20from%20Within.pdf

There is a Tamil story by Pudumai Pittan "Saba Vimochanam" where Ahalya after regaining her human form , sends an invitation to the Rama ana Sita to spend some time at her hermitage. While conversing with Sita she comes to know of the agni pariksha and is shocked. After a long refllection, she decides to remain a stone, unwilling to be redeemed by someone as unworthy as Ram,

--------------------------------

Even you are interpreting the mythology to project a debauched image of the past. It would have been a valid interpretation if there was "puritanism" in Ahalya's story. Later versions did shift the blame entirely to Indra and hence sanitise the tale. I think the earlier version is a rich tale and as DL Narayan has pointed out, there is no condemnation of Ahalya ever by anyone except by her husband and herself. 

     -------------------------

There are lot of things rotten with Indian society, but why throw out or debase mythology? There is no single version of any tale and different people have had different ways of telling them.More important, they may have many prejudices, but they are free of our contemporary prejudices that we are unaware of....

 Indra reached  the Ashram of  Gautama when the sage was away. He had adopted the guise of Gautama. But Ahalya, Gautama's beautiful wife knew that in stranger was not Gautama. But she did not drive him away. Indra had sex with the rishi's wife. Devaraj Indra thus was the rapist  of Gautama's wife in the Satya Yug. I'm sure Mohan Bhagwat is not unaware of it. 

Kautily's Arthashastra prescribes 24 panas punishment for "sex with the images of goddesses." Wasn't it rape? That too goddesses' mages! 

By the way, who were the rapists of the lifeless images in the golden era of Hindu kingdom?

RSS Chief should know it.  

 The tragedy is totally brainless people live in both India and Bharat.

What an idiot comment !

Change the name to Bharat (eg Changing name to Mumbai, all association to carnage in 1992/3 was wiped out).

No need to change as it is already name of our country..Please check your Passport what is writen?

Bhanwari Devi was from Bharat or India?   en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhanwari_Devi  She was gang raped for her activism against child marriage in Rajasthan. From wiki --

Bhanwari was accused of fabricating the entire incident by the alleged rapists and their supporters, and faced public humiliation in her village. She refused monetary compensation to avoid allegations that she had cooked up the rape story to get money.

In 1994, Bhanwari Devi was offered compensation by the accused to withdraw the court case against them. She refused, and instead asked them to restore her dignity by accepting that they had raped her. Bhanwari's brothers wanted her to accept the compensation, and broke all ties with her when she refused to do so. Sometime later, her elder son, daughter-in-law and her in-laws followed suit.
During the course of the case, five judges were changed, and the sixth judge ruled that the accused were not guilty, in November 1995. The district sessions judge pronounced that upper-caste men could not have raped a Dalit. The rapists included an uncle-nephew pair, and the judge insisted that a man could not possibly have participated in a gang-rape in the presence of his nephew. He also said that since the medical examination happened 52 hours after the alleged rape, Devi could be lying. He also said that Bhanwari's husband couldn't have passively watched his wife being gang-raped.
A state MLA organised a victory rally in the state capital Jaipur for the five accused declared not guilty, and the women's wing of his political party attended the rally to call Bhanwari a liar. The State Government decided to appeal against the judgment. The judgement led to a nationwide campaign for justice for Bhanwari Devi. However, by 2007, 15 years after the incident, the Rajasthan High Court held only one hearing on the case and two of the accused were dead.

Bhanwari Devi and her family were ostracized by the villagers, majority of whom belonged to the 'upper' castes. Her son Mukesh (who was barely four years old when she was raped) had been beaten up by local Gurjar boys when he went to a college in Dausa. He had a difficult time finding a family willing to marry their daughter to him. Bhanwari Devi's own caste ostracized her as they believed that she had been "polluted" by rape. Bhanwari Devi accepted Rs. 25,000 from the Prime Minister Narasimha Rao, but her brother spent the entire amount in organizing a Kumhar caste panchayat, where people were asked to accept her back into the community.
In 2001, Jag Mundhra made a film Bawandar on Bhanwari Devi's story, which renewed public interest in the case. The New Indian Express journalist Sukhmani Singh tracked her down, and reported: "Feisty, outspoken, innately hospitable, she openly expressed her resentment against both the women's groups and the government, all of whom have been fiercely guarding her like their pet mannequin all these many years." He reported that she was "weary, resigned and bitter" after all these years. According to him, a small-time political worker and businessman describing Bhanwari as a "rakhi sister" had brokered a deal with Mundhra for the film.He also reported that Bhanwari wanted to leave Bhateri, but couldn't afford to do so. Her sole source of income was a buffalo, as her two bighas of land had become unproductive due to three years of drought. Most of the money that she received as part of the Neerja Bhanot Memorial Award in 1994 was locked away in a trust to aid women.

Bhanwari Devi risked her life amidst threats from the conservative villagers, and showed courage in seeking justice in spite of social boycott. It was for the first time in the conservative region that a woman was not ashamed of rape and spoke openly about it. Bhanwari Devi's case shaped the women's movement in Rajasthan, and emboldened other rape victims to come forward and lodge complains against their rapists.
Bhanwari Devi had attracted the ire of her rapists solely on the basis of her work. This prompted several women's groups to file a Public Interest Litigation (PIL) in the Supreme Court of India, under the collective platform of Vishaka. The petition, filed by Vishaka and four other women's organizations in Rajasthan against the State of Rajasthan and the Union of India, resulted in what are popularly known as the Vishaka Guidelines. The judgment of August 1997 provided the basic definitions of sexual harassment at the workplace and provided guidelines to deal with it. It is seen as a significant victory for Bhanwari Devi's fight for justice.
By 2007, the average age of the first-time mother in Rajasthan had gone up to 16.5 years. According to Shivam Vij, this change was brought about by the efforts of women's groups, catalyzed by the Bhanwari Devi case.

-------------------------------------------------------

Is it in Bharat or India that judges rule that upper caste men could not have raped a lower caste woman? Is it in India or Bharat that the accused were acquitted on the basis of such a logic? Is it in India or Bharat that an MLA can celebrate such an acquittal and the women/s wing of the party can have a rally calling Bhanwari Devi a liar? And now they are calling for a Ashok Chakra for a woman who died? Bharat or India?

And a real India that is Bharat has many many unsung heroines and heroes. Yet we are stuck with a media that keeps projecting morally bankrupt pigheads. Who the hell is this Mohan Bhagwat? Has he done a single day's honest work in his life? 

Rape and murder is an ongoing activity in the Catholic church in Kerala,but none of the main line TV or print media has got the guts to bring it to the centre stage.It has taken sixteen long years to arrest the two priests who raped and brutally murdered the young nun Abhaya.The Catholic church is so powerful and intimidating that neither under the Congress rule nor under the Communist rule,the authorities dared investigate rape cases inside the fortified seminaries.Even the Pope had to apologise for the rampant child abuse in the Catholic church in the US,but here in India ruled aby an all powerful Catholic woman government authorities dare not take action against the involved Catholic priests.So,however stringent laws laws may be enacted after the Delhi rape tragedy,Catholic priests may still enjoy certain minority rights.

Mr. Joshipura .... what you see if more likely because violence in developed countries, especially USA is very individualistic whreas violence in 3rd world countries, especially India is "collective".

US has Gun policy, that anyone can possess gun an use it even for overtaking car people take out GUN and threaten so just imagine if someone tries to Gang Rape what would be the condition of those Rapists?

Womens in US especillay try to keep themselves very secure even when they are alone and if you have been to US you yourself can see that maximun SUV's heavy duty vehicle are driven by womens and not mens. Even with there costumes also you can sense that they are all time ready to defend them, in very hot temperatuer they would like to prefer Gum boot above there jeans, skirts or any kind of dress imagine if someone tries to rape any of this womens what will they get first? Hard Kick  at their raping tool....will he dare to take next step....If so...Then he has to cry life long...

What a jerk you are, Bhagwat! What about all the cases that get reported from rural India where women get raped and/or paraded naked - in many instances atrocities perpetrated by so-called "higher" caste folks upon women from so-called "lower" castes?

It is not Bhagwat's problem and it is so called highly intellectual media's problem that they ignore small towns and villages to bring forward there issues before nation.

Very few cases have so called come before us but why rest is left out?

Bhagwat's mindset (and that of other leaders making these outrageous comments) is the same as that of the rapists.  India may be a banana republic but at least you need some modicum of civilization in order to produce and export bananas. Bharat on the other hand seems like kind of barbarian and Talibanesque stone age country where women are systematically beaten and kept in their place by misogynist and chauvinist bigots like Mr Bhagwat and his ilk, treated like animals, forced into child marriage, raped if they step out of line to put them in their place, and murdered if they dare to marry the person of their choice .  Unfortunately the majority of the Indian population (as well as many contributors to this board) seem to share this mentality and no doubt would feel some sympathy for the Delhi rapists' taunting the girl about being out at 8.30 in the evening.  And it's not just the men, even 52% of women seem to think that it's OK for their husbands to beat them.  But these will be Bharatiya women, not Indian ones.  Leaders who subscribe to these kind of views and expect to rule over a modern constitutional democracy are subversive. And anybody on here who disagrees should not be reading English language publications like Outlook since they obviously consider it the language of the devil. Better to stick to Saamana.

 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/25-years-court-data-proves-RSS-chief-wrong-75-of-rape-convicts-from-Bharat/articleshow/17895592.cms

Now there is a hard data! And this Bhagwat dude is wearing one obscene pair of chaddis - look at his sexy legs - if the cougars of ''India" were to sexually attack him I wouldnt blame them!

I think Bhagwat and Owaisi and all the other christian / jewish / rastafarian / whateverother crazy wingnuts should go jump off a really tall cliff...the ones that can kill or at least seriously maim.  Won't be surprised if their lot wish the same on my lot.

...and...the great thing about a free society is that Bhagwat & Owaisi and Company can spout their nonsense, other folks can put together data to disprove them, I can call them (Bhagwat and Owaisi I mean) jerks and you can call me that for calling them so..and so it goes!

I live in a western country.  I have heard about rapes on women here but the 'Gang' rapes?  Almost never happens.  There should be a different category of punishment for gang rape. 

"It is better to let others think that you are stupid than open your mouth and prove it" - This is an old english saying which all the 'Bhartiya Mahanubhavs' should learn by heart.

Wow his half pant looks great !

Mr. Aiyer writes .... "Ashoka dismantled 'Aryavarta' (including military treaties and capabilities, educational system and legal system, which, in turn, ossified the caste system) and laid India open to every armed adventurer."

I agree that ossification of caste led to us being over run by invaders after invaders. I personally think ossification of caste is inherent in the construct of caste, i.e., an intrinsic property of caste - a system fine for machines/robots (where every cog has a purpose and serves that purpose well) but not humans. I have never thought or heard of it being blamed on Ashoka (or that he dismantled things that led to the ossification of caste), traditionally considered as one of the greatest emporers the world has seen. Please enlighten me and may be many others like me.

Anyways, one thing for sure .... we are most likely hosed. On one side we are westernizing in form (and think we are modernizing) - so not a path of renaissance leading to real modernization. On the other side are the "back to a golden past brigade when all was right, we were a land of milk and honey, etc. etc." (the Hindutva brigade led by RSS for the Hindus, or the assorted Islamist brigades for the Muslims), also not a path of renaissance leading to modernization. Will democracy, urbanization and industralization still deliver an Indian renaissance and hence modernization with a desi twist to it? The billion (may be trillion) $$ question.